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  #11  
Old 03-19-2013, 10:16 AM
cbass139 cbass139 is offline
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Originally Posted by cbass139 View Post
I have not educated myself thoroughly and aggregate and soils. I know basic stuff but I have always used cr8 which in my understanding is 3/4" crusher run which has 3/4" stone and smaller fines... Could this also be called 3/4"- due to the sieving process.. Where can I find information to educate myself on aggregates and proper uses.. I have always used cr8,#411,2b, as a base for walkways, patios, and walls. I am assuming this terminology all means the same. I pride myself on my craftsmanship but am always looking to educate myself and learn new things constantly. Being in business for a while know I should have learned this. I appreciate all feedback and criticism highly..

In regards to usinge either materials... Why have you chose to switch from one to the other are there any reasons? And what process do you use to use #57 as a wall base as far as compacting and leveling..
2a modified*
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  #12  
Old 03-19-2013, 11:45 AM
OUTLANDER OUTLANDER is offline
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Originally Posted by cbass139 View Post
Never what?
never clean for your base. Only clean gravel for your drain field (backfill)......you dont want erosion qualities under your wall, or (base) what holds the wall. Clean has no compaction, and has voids....I've heard of some using fabric and all, but still its just not right. You dont want drainage under your wall, only behind it (controlled drainage)....#57 crusher is very good base
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  #13  
Old 03-19-2013, 11:54 AM
cbass139 cbass139 is offline
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never clean for your base. Only clean gravel for your drain field (backfill)......you dont want erosion qualities under your wall, or (base) what holds the wall. Clean has no compaction, and has voids....I've heard of some using fabric and all, but still its just not right. You dont want drainage under your wall, only behind it (controlled drainage)....#57 crusher is very good base
That's what I thought.. Do some research.. It's acceptable???? but why?? I'm totally on board with you in the thought process but I can't see how the other way is ok! I preached the same and decided to look it up and was really thrown off!!
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  #14  
Old 03-19-2013, 12:05 PM
OUTLANDER OUTLANDER is offline
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I know what you're saying....i just look at these opinions sometime like, why do what can work instead of what does work?..
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  #15  
Old 03-19-2013, 12:20 PM
cbass139 cbass139 is offline
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I hear ya what are ncma specs
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  #16  
Old 03-19-2013, 04:12 PM
clipfert clipfert is offline
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NCMA specs are minimum 6" depth for base and 6" wider than your base course front and back or 12" wider than your block.
We always use a 24" wide base regardless to accomodate plate compactor.

If your asking what NCMA is...National Concrete Masonry Association
Its like ICPI but for SRW's
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  #17  
Old 03-19-2013, 05:45 PM
cbass139 cbass139 is offline
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Originally Posted by clipfert View Post
NCMA specs are minimum 6" depth for base and 6" wider than your base course front and back or 12" wider than your block.
We always use a 24" wide base regardless to accomodate plate compactor.

If your asking what NCMA is...National Concrete Masonry Association
Its like ICPI but for SRW's
I'm curious as to the ncma aggregate specifications for the base of a gravity srw.
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  #18  
Old 03-19-2013, 06:32 PM
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DVS Hardscaper DVS Hardscaper is offline
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Originally Posted by OUTLANDER View Post
never clean for your base. Only clean gravel for your drain field (backfill)......you dont want erosion qualities under your wall, or (base) what holds the wall. Clean has no compaction, and has voids....I've heard of some using fabric and all, but still its just not right. You dont want drainage under your wall, only behind it (controlled drainage)....#57 crusher is very good base

Not sure where you obtained your knowledge, but what you wrote - AIN'T correct.

Number 1: Clean aggregate (#57) self compacts.

Number 2: It is PERFECTLY acceptable to use. Infact, if you look at most engineers specs you will see where they list for the base that you can use: a) Concrete. B) crusher run. C) #57. All 3 are acceptable.

Also - think of a french drain (dry well). A french drain consists of #57!!!! Because IT DRAINS!!!

So, if you think about it, you do not want water standing at the base of the wall. With that said - #57 clean is perfect because water can drain through it.

Ok, so there is probably someone reading this thinking "why would water collect at the base of the wall, what is this idiot DVS talking about?" Well - I have a buddy in Hinkley Ohio whom had a wall built by a decent size, busy, well known contractor. And that large, well known contractor turned out to be a contractor from He!!. And he built the wall with water collecting at the base. He used crusher run for the base and directed water to collect behind the wall! Had they at least used 3/4" clean - then maybe, just maybe, the water could drain.

Sometimes we use clean. Sometimes we use crusher run. Both are 110% acceptable. And we been building walls since 1997.



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Last edited by DVS Hardscaper; 03-19-2013 at 06:39 PM.
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  #19  
Old 03-19-2013, 08:00 PM
cbass139 cbass139 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post



Not sure where you obtained your knowledge, but what you wrote - AIN'T correct.

Number 1: Clean aggregate (#57) self compacts.

Number 2: It is PERFECTLY acceptable to use. Infact, if you look at most engineers specs you will see where they list for the base that you can use: a) Concrete. B) crusher run. C) #57. All 3 are acceptable.

Also - think of a french drain (dry well). A french drain consists of #57!!!! Because IT DRAINS!!!

So, if you think about it, you do not want water standing at the base of the wall. With that said - #57 clean is perfect because water can drain through it.

Ok, so there is probably someone reading this thinking "why would water collect at the base of the wall, what is this idiot DVS talking about?" Well - I have a buddy in Hinkley Ohio whom had a wall built by a decent size, busy, well known contractor. And that large, well known contractor turned out to be a contractor from He!!. And he built the wall with water collecting at the base. He used crusher run for the base and directed water to collect behind the wall! Had they at least used 3/4" clean - then maybe, just maybe, the water could drain.

Sometimes we use clean. Sometimes we use crusher run. Both are 110% acceptable. And we been building walls since 1997.



.
I value your opinion I have read a lot of your posts... What do you use to determine which stone to use... I can not understand the concept and in order to sustain a good reputation I should. I understand using a crusher run base and drainage to redirect collecting water but would you pitch your subgrade to drain away and then install #57 creating a large French drain under the wall? Is using #57 stone preferred for smaller walls where drainage is not a huge necessity for added protection. Is #57 stone base used in conjunction with drainage behind wall... So many questions! I feel like a noob agian! Someone help me with this concept! I know a lot of others viewing are in the same boat as me.. I'm not afraid to say Im clueless to this concept of #57 as an srw base. Their has to be some methodology behind it.. Heads ... Tails... #57...cr8.... Just doesn't cut it for me haha
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  #20  
Old 03-19-2013, 08:08 PM
scagrider22 scagrider22 is offline
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DVS, do you know the name of the company that built your buddies wall, it didn't happen to be Exterior land development? I live in the next town south of Hinkley.

As for #57 I agree with DVS. Most city engineers require us to use #57 for our base on walls and they do compaction testing after every lift on a city job. We always get above 97%
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