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  #41  
Old 03-27-2013, 03:41 PM
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GreenUtah GreenUtah is offline
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For those of you who think the current system was just fine, that people were just being freeloaders or lazy over their insurance priorities, step right up to get punched in the face.

Since 1980, healthcare costs as a percentage in the United States has risen from 10% of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) to over 17% currently (and rising). That a 7% involuntary private tax increase on every single dollar exchanged for any good or service transacted in relation to the United States. To put that in today's dollars, that's a 1.2 TRILLION dollar per year INCREASE. That expenditure puts us at nearly double the next countries spending and well over double for the average of the top ten spenders. All the while, our "best of the best" has slipped into the 30s in worldwide ranking in overall effectiveness, putting us in the company of what most here would consider to be "third world" countries.

You may not be paying it on a form in April all nice and laid out to gag on, but you're paying it every single time you spend a penny.

Has this occurred from inflation or rising costs of supplies simply being passed on? Nope. That's what GDP comparisons are good for, if all costs are up, percentages stay flat as everything is equally passed.

What we have instead is a mass consolidation of health care services that was created and utilized to form a small group of massive regional health systems that are artificially controlling the market. There is no free market. Your independent doctor is gone. He's now a part of a coverage network and spends his days at billing seminars instead of medical advancement training. Everyone in the entire food chain is working some scheme to jack up items by thousands %. The 2 cent aspirin becomes the $10 pill with no competition or questioning.

32 states do not allow a nurse practioner to write prescriptions although studies have shown time and time again that they have better success rates at a lower cost for "everyday" types of medical issues and a higher satisfaction rate with their clients. In the states that don't allow them in place of a doctor, they are still the primary workers in a doctors office doing screening, blood, etc.

Corporations that initially went along with it, to give them leverage to keep older, more experienced and valuable employees with better benefits are now buckling under the weight of the monster. They are slashing their coverages, jacking their deductibles to the roof and trying to part time or layoff any employee that might up their risk pool. Even governmental entities are feeling the pressure.

My own wife was a city employee. She got cancer. We went to the big cancer hospital with all the latest advancements. The problem was that most were considered "experimental" (since they don't cure cancer) by the insurance company (a city program, don't forget) and so on top of what was covered, we also sucked up another 6 figures in cost for each of the three years until she died. During this time, two more employees in the city also got cancer (more than 800 employees..not a high statiscal occurrence) but the costs were so high for the city that they actually had to drastically modify their health plan, basically going to a catastrophic coverage program coupled to a health savings plan that left some interesting gaps for employees used to small co pays and coverage on just about anything. After her death, that left me with individual buying on the open market that runs me more than $800 per month for my family for a garbage plan (sold my business off to deal with costs and time commitment for the big C, so no group policy opportunities).

Additionally, 99% of LCOs will never reach the amount of employees to have even the possibility of a group buy. Banding together as an association of buyers or other similar groups to increase purchasing power has been banned by law during this entire skyrocketing costs period.

Right now, if you are working another job or relying on your spouse's employment (or other governmental coverage) you are subsidizing your lawn operation's true costs and not passing those along to your customers. Artificially deflating your operation costs and criticizing those who cannot cover theirs by asking for their business to provide. Hypocrite.

You ask how will it be paid for. It's already being paid for on every dime you spend. Your questions should be how can we get a grip on these damn costs and stop our race to the bottom. The tables have already been tilted deeply against you, the small business owner, not by free markets but by careful planning and execution, far more severe than any national competitor might do to you in your local market. It's come by monopolization and legislation and it's time for you to get your head out of your ass.
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  #42  
Old 03-27-2013, 04:27 PM
djagusch djagusch is offline
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Location: MN
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There is too many ways to reduce the cost of HI compared to obamacare that will increase the costs of HI. A couple ideas:

Offer insurance which doesn't cover preventative care. Last time I checked insurance is for non planned events, not wellness checks. This is mostly a political problem because laws of been passed to help someone out.

Buy insurance across state lines which makes more competition over insurers.

Make people pay out of pocket for wellness checks, physicals, yearly shots, and make the clinics post prices before the appointment so you can shop it. Every notice the doctor can't give you a quote? They can give you a code then you call the billing office for prices. If people actually knew what some stuff would cost they would shop it which would bring prices down.

Make a preexisting pool. Somehow gov can help these people but lets face it a preexisting condition isn't what insurance was intended for.

If government programs keep on paying .45 cents on the dollar rates will keep going up because someone (meaning the insured) is paying the difference. Cash customers should get the deepest discounts since it's less paperwork.

The more the consumer has skin in the game the more the prices will go down.

The more it's is actually insurance instead of health care the cheaper it will be.

The system is broken but gov oversight won't fix a thing and only make it more expensive.
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  #43  
Old 03-27-2013, 04:34 PM
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jrs.landscaping jrs.landscaping is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenUtah View Post

Right now, if you are working another job or relying on your spouse's employment (or other governmental coverage) you are subsidizing your lawn operation's true costs and not passing those along to your customers. Artificially deflating your operation costs and criticizing those who cannot cover theirs by asking for their business to provide. Hypocrite.

You ask how will it be paid for. It's already being paid for on every dime you spend. Your questions should be how can we get a grip on these damn costs and stop our race to the bottom. The tables have already been tilted deeply against you, the small business owner, not by free markets but by careful planning and execution, far more severe than any national competitor might do to you in your local market. It's come by monopolization and legislation and it's time for you to get your head out of your ass.
Try passing those costs onto customers . Markets are tough no matter what the region or what the industry. Calling people hypocritical for maintaining jobs for their employees in a tough economic setting by not having personal insurance..... really?

The main problem isn't insurance, or the deflation of the USD, it's the fact that I can name 10 people who collect more than 30k a year in state aid claiming one or another "disabilities."

I do agree that our government needs to step up as well as the American people to right the ship.
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  #44  
Old 03-27-2013, 05:15 PM
lawnsaspire lawnsaspire is offline
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leave the man alone, he lost his wife. he makes some great points. basically whether you have insurance or not, youll get screwed either way.
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  #45  
Old 03-27-2013, 05:16 PM
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jrs.landscaping jrs.landscaping is online now
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Originally Posted by lawnsaspire View Post
leave the man alone, he lost his wife. he makes some great points. basically whether you have insurance or not, youll get screwed either way.Posted via Mobile Device
I think we can all agree with that
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  #46  
Old 03-27-2013, 05:58 PM
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tnmtn tnmtn is offline
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Great Post GreenUtah, I'm sorry for your loss that gave you the background to write the post. All excellent points.
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  #47  
Old 03-27-2013, 06:28 PM
shawnlc shawnlc is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: na
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Very sad. Sorry for your loss. As a family man, I couldn't imagine the pain. You and your family are in my prayers.

I've watched a retired Marine (53 years old) come down with prostate cancer. One day he was fine, the next day he was diagnosed with prostate cancer. Chemo, the whole nine yards. In a matter of two months I watched this man wither away from 200 pounds to less than 130 and passed away. During this time he pretty much lost all of his savings and once he passed his wife had to sell everything ... and he had insurance. This shouldn't happen.

There's a better way. It starts with controlling fraud and abuse of the system. I'm not sure what the rest is though. I don't think it starts with ObamaCare.







Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenUtah View Post
For those of you who think the current system was just fine, that people were just being freeloaders or lazy over their insurance priorities, step right up to get punched in the face.

Since 1980, healthcare costs as a percentage in the United States has risen from 10% of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) to over 17% currently (and rising). That a 7% involuntary private tax increase on every single dollar exchanged for any good or service transacted in relation to the United States. To put that in today's dollars, that's a 1.2 TRILLION dollar per year INCREASE. That expenditure puts us at nearly double the next countries spending and well over double for the average of the top ten spenders. All the while, our "best of the best" has slipped into the 30s in worldwide ranking in overall effectiveness, putting us in the company of what most here would consider to be "third world" countries.

You may not be paying it on a form in April all nice and laid out to gag on, but you're paying it every single time you spend a penny.

Has this occurred from inflation or rising costs of supplies simply being passed on? Nope. That's what GDP comparisons are good for, if all costs are up, percentages stay flat as everything is equally passed.

What we have instead is a mass consolidation of health care services that was created and utilized to form a small group of massive regional health systems that are artificially controlling the market. There is no free market. Your independent doctor is gone. He's now a part of a coverage network and spends his days at billing seminars instead of medical advancement training. Everyone in the entire food chain is working some scheme to jack up items by thousands %. The 2 cent aspirin becomes the $10 pill with no competition or questioning.

32 states do not allow a nurse practioner to write prescriptions although studies have shown time and time again that they have better success rates at a lower cost for "everyday" types of medical issues and a higher satisfaction rate with their clients. In the states that don't allow them in place of a doctor, they are still the primary workers in a doctors office doing screening, blood, etc.

Corporations that initially went along with it, to give them leverage to keep older, more experienced and valuable employees with better benefits are now buckling under the weight of the monster. They are slashing their coverages, jacking their deductibles to the roof and trying to part time or layoff any employee that might up their risk pool. Even governmental entities are feeling the pressure.

My own wife was a city employee. She got cancer. We went to the big cancer hospital with all the latest advancements. The problem was that most were considered "experimental" (since they don't cure cancer) by the insurance company (a city program, don't forget) and so on top of what was covered, we also sucked up another 6 figures in cost for each of the three years until she died. During this time, two more employees in the city also got cancer (more than 800 employees..not a high statiscal occurrence) but the costs were so high for the city that they actually had to drastically modify their health plan, basically going to a catastrophic coverage program coupled to a health savings plan that left some interesting gaps for employees used to small co pays and coverage on just about anything. After her death, that left me with individual buying on the open market that runs me more than $800 per month for my family for a garbage plan (sold my business off to deal with costs and time commitment for the big C, so no group policy opportunities).

Additionally, 99% of LCOs will never reach the amount of employees to have even the possibility of a group buy. Banding together as an association of buyers or other similar groups to increase purchasing power has been banned by law during this entire skyrocketing costs period.

Right now, if you are working another job or relying on your spouse's employment (or other governmental coverage) you are subsidizing your lawn operation's true costs and not passing those along to your customers. Artificially deflating your operation costs and criticizing those who cannot cover theirs by asking for their business to provide. Hypocrite.

You ask how will it be paid for. It's already being paid for on every dime you spend. Your questions should be how can we get a grip on these damn costs and stop our race to the bottom. The tables have already been tilted deeply against you, the small business owner, not by free markets but by careful planning and execution, far more severe than any national competitor might do to you in your local market. It's come by monopolization and legislation and it's time for you to get your head out of your ass.
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  #48  
Old 03-27-2013, 07:20 PM
designman designman is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 9
And will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Do the math, i cant raise my prices by that much.
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  #49  
Old 03-27-2013, 07:53 PM
205mx 205mx is online now
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,589
Right. It would be very hard for us to raise our prices each and every year.
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  #50  
Old 03-27-2013, 08:31 PM
The Turf Guys The Turf Guys is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Midwest
Posts: 92
Yes, prices have gone up a lot in the last 30 years. So has a college education (actually at a higher rate than Health insurance). My arguement would be that the cost of College has skyrocketed BECAUSE OF government involvement and near 100% acceptance rate. Same will continue with healthcare until the complete system collapses and then we end up with single payer which is what many wanted to begin with. Good Luck
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