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  #11  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:17 PM
Turboguy Turboguy is offline
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If you consider Hearty seed mix to be second best to Penn State mix why not just use Penn State Mix. You could get it cheaper than the price you are mentioning for the Hearty Mix. If you are charging the guy 9 grand to seed his lawn is seed the place you want to settle for second best? You can get a 50 pound bag of Penn State Mix for under a hundred bucks.

I seed about 50 - 60 lawns a year in Western Pa. I did 8 this past week ranging from White Oak, to Crafton to Butler and have another 6 or 7 to do this week. I hydroseed mine but seed is the last thing I would cut corners on.
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  #12  
Old 04-22-2013, 12:58 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboguy View Post
If you consider Hearty seed mix to be second best to Penn State mix why not just use Penn State Mix. You could get it cheaper than the price you are mentioning for the Hearty Mix. If you are charging the guy 9 grand to seed his lawn is seed the place you want to settle for second best? You can get a 50 pound bag of Penn State Mix for under a hundred bucks.

I seed about 50 - 60 lawns a year in Western Pa. I did 8 this past week ranging from White Oak, to Crafton to Butler and have another 6 or 7 to do this week. I hydroseed mine but seed is the last thing I would cut corners on.
There is a National Research Center that will tell you the NEWEST & THE BEST grass seed to use... don't monkey around with what your local growers have been working with over the past 50 years... find out what the new stuff has to offer...
There are 2 trains of thot on whether you should jump on the bandwagon of national development or TRUST the providers that have served your communittees for years...
Did you know that the local provider tests those new products before they sell them 'en masse' to your communittee???

NOW:, with that in mind tell us,,, what is the ACTUAL DIFFERENCE between the premier PennState seed and your Hearty Hardy Seed???...
AND plz be specific...
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  #13  
Old 04-22-2013, 07:53 AM
Turboguy Turboguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
There is a National Research Center that will tell you the NEWEST & THE BEST grass seed to use... don't monkey around with what your local growers have been working with over the past 50 years... find out what the new stuff has to offer...
There is one word in what you said that would cause me a little concern. That word is "National" My question would be can someone on a "National" basis know what seeds will work best in Western PA, South Eastern Oregon or Eastern W. Va.

Penn State mix was developed by Penn State University. It is a blend of Bluegrass, Fescue and Ryegrass. Virtually every seed company sells a verson of it here and the mix can vary a bit as far as seed variety. You can even go to WalMart and get Pennington's "Penn State Mix". I have seen few landscape contractors or seeding professionals that used anything else except in special circumstances. Even our local athletic fields are done with Penn State mix. (Some of that is because I seeded them, but not all of them)

The other blend is a name I have never heard of. I tried an internet search and couldn't find anything. I am assuming it is a cheap contractor blend.

My point is that on a $ 9,000 saving 30 bucks or so going with a second best seed is not the way to go. He is quoting $ 300.00 for seed. He can get the Penn State blend for that or less. Our local feed store sells it for $ 89.00 a 50 pound bag. I get my Penn State mix a lot cheaper than that buy buy my seed 2,000-6,000 pounds at a time from a seed company.

Last edited by Turboguy; 04-22-2013 at 07:59 AM.
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  #14  
Old 04-22-2013, 08:59 AM
maynardGkeynes maynardGkeynes is offline
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From a newspaper story a few years back:

Quote:
...the actual origins of the seed mixture said to have been developed at Penn State University is fogged in the mists of time.
Peter J. Landschoot, associate professor of turf grass science at Penn State, said Penn State does provide suggestions for grass seed mixes but he doesn't have any idea where the story originated. He's seen some really lousy grass mixes out there marketed as Penn State Mix.
"In some cases, they are similar to what we suggest, but in others they are not even near that," he says. "Because it has the name Penn State on it doesn't mean it has anything to do with anything we recommend."
The NTEP studies are done on a regional basis in many parts of the country in association with the State Ag programs, and are quite thorough and well-researched both regionally and nationally. "Penn State Mix" is just a popular name, for marketing purposes.
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  #15  
Old 04-22-2013, 09:29 AM
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Snyder's Lawn Inc Snyder's Lawn Inc is offline
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Thanks for the replies! As for the soil. This new housing development was built on previous farm land. So the soil is better than the average Western Pennsylvania clayish soil or sand stone ridden soil. The seed I'm using is a highly recommended and highly ask for seed in our are. Hardy Mix is a mixture of three seeds...drought tolerant, shade seed, and a basic seed. This works best in our area based on the every changing weather conditions. Other than "Penn State" grass, which is the best grass for ideal conditions, Hardy Mix is the next best. I'm just concerned with my price. If I was hand shoveling all the soil and wheeling it into location. etc...the price would seem fair. But the skid is going to speed the process up greatly and I'm having a hard time justifying the price. But...if my price is in the range of others...then there is no reason to not charge that. I try to stay away from these types of job...but my name was thrown in on a referral and I worked with this homeowner way back in college while doing my internship...so she knows me and I just couldn't say no. I mainly do maint...mowing, shrub trimming, mulch, edging, fall clean up, minor hardscape...50/50 commercial/residential.
I think your in left field but That might be the going rate in your area
24,000 You should put down 10 lbs per 1k on a new lawn
Since customer going be spending that kind of jack Put the seed to it
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:36 AM
Turboguy Turboguy is offline
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I would tend to agree with the article. I see a lot of differences in what companies market as "Penn State Mix". I have seen as much as a 20% variance in seed varieties and a lot of differences in quality.

Still the point that I was trying to make was that on a job that someone is charging 9 grand for using the "second best" seed that would save a very tiny amount of money is not the best place to cut corners.

Our dirt in W. PA is crap. Mostly clay shale. It does manage to grow grass however and if he needs to cut corners it would be better to do it on the top soil than the seed. Some of the conditions I have to grow grass on are pathetic. I was out yesterday seeding a million dollar house that had virtually no prep and no topsoil. I found it sad to seed such a beautiful house in such conditions. It is what the customer wants and I don't do prep, only hydroseeding so I just do what the customer wants. That of course doesn't mean I don't try to tell them what it needs to do it right.
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  #17  
Old 04-22-2013, 09:37 AM
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Snyder's Lawn Inc Snyder's Lawn Inc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
There is a National Research Center that will tell you the NEWEST & THE BEST grass seed to use... don't monkey around with what your local growers have been working with over the past 50 years... find out what the new stuff has to offer...
There are 2 trains of thot on whether you should jump on the bandwagon of national development or TRUST the providers that have served your communittees for years...
Did you know that the local provider tests those new products before they sell them 'en masse' to your communittee???

NOW:, with that in mind tell us,,, what is the ACTUAL DIFFERENCE between the premier PennState seed and your Hearty Hardy Seed???...
AND plz be specific...
That's BS What NRC says works doesn't always applies ((You read to much))
I don't use a Penn State seed and I wont, Been using My mix for 32 years with no issue.
You make me from some of the BS you give
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  #18  
Old 04-22-2013, 09:52 AM
Turboguy Turboguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Snyder's Lawn Inc View Post
I think your in left field but That might be the going rate in your area
24,000 You should put down 10 lbs per 1k on a new lawn
Since customer going be spending that kind of jack Put the seed to it
I think you made a good point. I hydroseed at 9 pounds of Penn State Mix per 1000 sq. ft., which is close to what you are saying. I think he should figure on 5 bags of seed not 3. If he is close to Pittsburgh I might suggest a place in Cheswick where he can get good seed at a great price. Far less than what he is figuring.
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  #19  
Old 04-22-2013, 09:54 AM
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Snyder's Lawn Inc Snyder's Lawn Inc is offline
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Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
If you ADD the cost of operating the skidster at $100/hr, from the time it leaves the shed, plus the skilled operator that spreads a 1" layer being a skilled individual worthy of a $75/hr minimum... I wouldn't worry too much for the silliness of over charging somebody who requests that it be done on Farm Land in the first place...

I would give a separate quote for slit-seeding only... plan on the light leveling of the existing grade being done by hand for $50/hr instead of $175/hr...
One thing that professionals do is,,, give the clientale several INTELLIGENT options...
From this I can tell you don't do much new lawn work.

Show me and OP the Equipment you have and would use on this type of job
and not a damn Slit seeder
If the lawn is done right first time you wont need a slit seeder period.
The Op is doing it right but no you want him cut corners and use a slit seeder.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:00 AM
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Snyder's Lawn Inc Snyder's Lawn Inc is offline
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Originally Posted by Turboguy View Post
I think you made a good point. I hydroseed at 9 pounds of Penn State Mix per 1000 sq. ft., which is close to what you are saying. I think he should figure on 5 bags of seed not 3. If he is close to Pittsburgh I might suggest a place in Cheswick where he can get good seed at a great price. Far less than what he is figuring.
O yes he needs atleast 250lbs of seed
I like my new lawn look like carpet a lot people around here thinks I sod a lot lawn tell them nope it was seeded heavy I use a 5 blend turf fescue
The Penn Seed does not work around here or anything with rye or bluegrass
wasting your money around here.
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