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  #11  
Old 02-16-2003, 12:10 AM
Organix Organix is offline
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Not at all. I work alone. I also do get frustrated with the situation but nothing we say is going to change it. I think reaching out to the people in the industry is the only real way to deal with it as far as effecting our biz.

As far as effecting our country, you did not have to say they were Hispanic, I'm sure they were. Those Arab terrorist did not have to go mow lawns for 6 bux an hour to fund their evil deeds. The are backed by real money. None of them had jobs as a matter of fact.

I don't think your even being honest with yourself that what your upset about is because of national security.
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  #12  
Old 02-16-2003, 12:23 AM
Bluesteel Bluesteel is offline
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No man, illegal immigration is a flood. Let me spell it out for ya. Some statistics estimate 44,000 per month, and some say its way more than that! Which is way too many to contain or manage. The root cause of that is the demand for them, created (in part) by Scab-LCO's. An unintended consequence of that flood is terroists hiding among the them. The Border Patrol and INS are so overwhelmed they can't possibly track and patrol as they should. I still contend there are only three types of people who don't see it as a problem.
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  #13  
Old 02-16-2003, 12:48 AM
Organix Organix is offline
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Your being an alarmist and reactionary. The people you are talking about do not have the "scum" as you say hiding among them or coming in with them. The only border that potential terrorist are likely to cross in the Canadian one. I don't think there are any LCO's hiring illegal canucks are there?

Illegal immigration could possibly be a problem to national security. However, it is WAY more likely that these people would get in legally.

I guess if you want to rat them out, you can. I'm sure you will be asked how you know and you better have something better than I have eyes. The LCO may have been showed documentation. So he won't be in trouble. Then what? Feel safer now?

I would think you being from Oklahoma would realize that terrorist can even be citizens.
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  #14  
Old 02-16-2003, 12:58 AM
Bluesteel Bluesteel is offline
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And you know terrorists are not coming across the Mexican border because??? Open your eyes dude.

Its a big business and the top-paying customers for the last few years have been young middle-eastern men. That's a documented fact the Border Patrol and INS has from interrogating both smugglers and clients.

Anybody knows you can't flip a switch or pass a law that will fix the WHOLE problem all at once. The remedy is fixing one thing at a time. Too many people like yourself just give up when there isn't an easy answer, and then deny its much of a problem at all. This subject is relavent to this forum and this community has little problem condemning "Scabs." My point is that being a Scab is more than just people who don't have insurance or pay taxes. Now, I wonder which of the three types you are?

Last edited by Bluesteel; 02-16-2003 at 01:11 AM.
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  #15  
Old 02-16-2003, 03:06 AM
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brucec32 brucec32 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Randy Scott
If you know that someone is operating with illegal aliens, turn them in! Simple as that. If you don't, you are as bad as they are.

This was a heated debate here a couple months ago. Do a search and read those threads. All has been said that needs to be said.

Besides, the real scum are the companies hiring the illegals. They need to be stopped, then the illegals will stop.


Turn them in to who? That's the problem. They're no longer enforcing the laws on the books. Remember, the DC sniper kid was found to be illegal while detained once and was released. Several of the 9/11 hijackers were here illegally and had overstayed visas. Nobody was looking for them. They're trying to allow illegals to get drivers licenses in many states, don't you think they'd arrest them while taking their exams if they were going to enforce the laws? Numerous banks have promoted the "consula matricula"...basically a phoney ID card to allow illegal immigrants to open accounts, wire money, etc. They even let known illegals walk out of jail after they've done their 30 days or whatever for minor offenses. It's just not seen as a crime anymore. What a shame. Kiss America goodbye within 50 years. Hope the cheap labor was worth it.

I agree the scum are the employers, not necessarily the immigrants. Though they're certainly not all the "noble poor" they're stereotyped as being, either.

To think, our forefathers risked their lives and wasted all those years fighting for freedom from a corrupt, unfair government! What fools. All they had to do was move, uninvited, illegally, to a place where life was better and where people HAD fought and died for a good society. I mean, why pick up a gun and fight for a better life? You might get hurt or something. Better to go make some big bucks in America.

Things SUCK in Mexico, South and Central America, Eastern European, and some Asian countries not because of some unlucky lack of material wealth( Mexico is loaded with oil), bad climate, or temporary conditions like the Irish Potato famine, etc. Conditions in these countries suck because their values and cultures suck, politically incorrect as it is to say that. They tolerate corruption, they don't believe in a system of respecting the minority rights, and they don't care about ideas like freedom, a system of law, constitutional rights, and the value of education. Nobody can get a job there because nobody can build a business there without greasing palms, paying protection money, and basically being a crook. Investment is inhibited because you're never sure if your investment is safe from war, crooked politicians seizing it, or even from the people themselves.

I'd rather "help" these people learn to clean their own messes up and prosper within their own cultural framework, rather than just bringing their messes here for us to deal with. It's naive to think the cultures that produce such problems will suddenly change by having their people walk accross the US border.

This is more than a business problem, this is a fate of the country's future problem. It'd be cool to be able to go back in time and ask the Roman Empire how well mass immigration worked out for them. Turning over their work to immigrants because they were too "important" to do it themselves. Eventually even the stupid poor common footsolider thought he was too much of a big shot to be a soldier, so he became a farmer, (often with slaves) and the society hired mercenary armies of foreigners to defend it. Eventually they turned their army over to them and guess what....their immigrants eventually just didn't care whether Rome survived or not. They would often get a slightly better deal from the invaders (sound like any workers you know?) and switch sides, mid campaign.

Do you think you'd become a loyal Saudi Arabian and adopt their culture just because you got a job there working at an oil refinery? It's arrogant to believe the vast number of immigrants flooding our borders would, either. Their loyalties and hearts remain at home. This isn't a problem when they're a small minority. But past a certain point, it's a receipe for strife and even civil war. A good person is a good person, and I wish everybody well. But it's just being unrealistic to think that bringing 20% of the population of another country to live here is going to help anything, other than the temporary cost of getting pinestraw spread or a burger cooked. There are BILLIONS of destitute poor around the world. We take it a tiny fraction each year. Are the rest of them just screwed?

Obviously the answer is doing our own work, helping other countries help themselves (if they don't, they don't deserve to prosper), and sealing the borders for the survival of the country as we know it.

Anyone who says America won't change after 10 or 20 more years of mass immigration hasn't driven through the parts of town near a chicken plant or other factory lately. It's like a 3rd world country.

For those who are ignorant about the immigration problem(sadly, I suspect that many defenders of mass immigration actually know it's a problem but want the money more than a future USA) here are some links...go argue with the facts

http://www.fairus.org/

http://www.cis.org/index.cgi

And for those of you who knowingly hire illegal aliens....Let's just say I sincerely hope you get what's coming to you, whatever God decides that is. If you're so sure you're doing a good thing, you shouldn't have any problems, right?

Last edited by brucec32; 02-16-2003 at 03:21 AM.
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  #16  
Old 02-16-2003, 03:14 AM
Organix Organix is offline
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The worse thing that happened on 9/11, besides the loss of life, is how people like you use it to fear monger about everything they don't like in this country.


Just give it a rest, and go snitch to La migra. Come back and tell us when they don't do a dang thing.

Quote:
To think, our forefathers risked their lives and wasted all those years fighting for freedom from a corrupt, unfair government! What fools. All they had to do was move, uninvited, illegally, to a place where life was better and where people HAD fought and died for a good society.
I'm sure that is what some of my Cherokee ancestors were thinking when some of my English and Irish ancestors were coming over too.

We're pretty much all immigrants, no matter what you want to say or think, that's how it is. California, Texas, New Mexico and Arizona all once belonged to descendants of the people that you think are ruining your country.

There is some truth in what you say about loyalty and national identity, but you are just assuming that immigrants will not have that. I have personally seen otherwise.

One immigrant from El Salvador that I know, put a God Bless America bumper sticker on his car after 9/11. He means it. Look at all the Latinos who are first and second generation are serving in our armed forces now. You think they don't care?

Also, what the heck did you think was going on in Central America in the 80's? These people did fight for freedom against tyrannical oligopolies of which our government props up for economic reasons.

All people love freedom, our's was hard fought but the only way we were able to win it was with the help of the same people that inspired it, the French. It's a good time to remember that. And yes, we should help and inspire these other countries and help them to build democratic, free market economies. Then we would have less of an immigration problem.

Last edited by Organix; 02-16-2003 at 03:40 AM.
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  #17  
Old 02-16-2003, 03:31 AM
brucec32's Avatar
brucec32 brucec32 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Organix
Your being an alarmist and reactionary. The people you are talking about do not have the "scum" as you say hiding among them or coming in with them. The only border that potential terrorist are likely to cross in the Canadian one. I don't think there are any LCO's hiring illegal canucks are there?

Illegal immigration could possibly be a problem to national security. However, it is WAY more likely that these people would get in legally.

I guess if you want to rat them out, you can. I'm sure you will be asked how you know and you better have something better than I have eyes. The LCO may have been showed documentation. So he won't be in trouble. Then what? Feel safer now?

I would think you being from Oklahoma would realize that terrorist can even be citizens.
Oh yeah? How about reading this recent news story.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=31027

I can almost hear you braying from here...lol
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  #18  
Old 02-16-2003, 03:59 AM
Organix Organix is offline
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Um, you think worlnetdaily is a reputable source? hahahhaha.....pure propaganda and garbage. Although, I don't doubt there are, and always have been some from all over the world that come through there. However, we do know that the 9/11 guys came here legally with the exception of 2 I think who came through Canada. The way this story reads is like they could be Iraqi agents or something. For all you know it could have been 3 old ladies and their daughters. This source has an agenda

The guy that was going to blow up LAX during Clinton administration was caught at Canadian border.

The truth is, these Arabs are more likely to speak English than Spanish and would find it easier to go through Canada both because of that and because the Canadian border is not checked checked the same way. Sorry, but there are people in Arizona right now who are trying to enforce immigration themselves. It has been a big issue there.

I would think a more likely scenario is someone who is trying to attract attention to the issue of stricter enforcement planted that diary. I sure as heck would not trust Worldnet Daily for a straight scoop on that.

The next thing they will find will be a brief case that was the perfect size to hold one of nukes that came from the nuclear program that Saddam does not have.


I don't know what braying means but I refuse to be scared then the terrorist really do win.
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  #19  
Old 02-16-2003, 05:41 AM
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Richard Martin Richard Martin is offline
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The U.S. could easily keep illegal immigrants out if they wanted to. The U.S.S.R. perfected the "no crossing the border" model back in the 40's and it worked extremely well. Once the Iron Curtain went up almost nobody got through it. A solid wall from Texas to California complete with ground listening devices, multiple rows of razor wire fence and guard towers every mile should do it. And it would probably be cheaper than the "Free For All" policy the U.S. government supports now.
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  #20  
Old 02-16-2003, 11:25 AM
Bluesteel Bluesteel is offline
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Bruce32, great post bud! Lots of heart-felt truths. Too bad there are so many Scab-LCO's that know you're right but can't say so because they're guilty as charged.

Organix, you said: "We're pretty much all immigrants, no matter what you want to say or think, that's how it is." And that's true, but once again, YOU'RE OFF TOPIC. The topic is about ILLEGAL ALIENS (immigrants). Obviously, you have no real defense or counter-argument for being a Scab, so you have to resort to distractions and distortions. But hey, I give you credit, you're following your beloved Clintonian tactics to the letter. When confronted with the truth, attack that messenger. There's a term that discribes your kind in the Communist Manifesto, "Useful Idiot." Good boy!

Richard, that wall is not a bad idea, it would be less of an expense in the long run. But I'd still like to see the Scab-LCO's ridiculed for putting us all as risk so they can make their Dixie Chopper payments.
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