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  #11  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:14 AM
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Snyder's Lawn Inc Snyder's Lawn Inc is offline
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Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
The primary isse here,,, is germination... fertilizer has nothing to do with germination...

Correct temp, moisture, and even light determine germination,,, NOT fertilizer...
Dang you are right WOW but after germination The right Fert is the primary issue
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  #12  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:22 AM
Darryl G Darryl G is offline
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You might want to use a slit (slice) seeder instead of top dressing.
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  #13  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:30 AM
maynardGkeynes maynardGkeynes is offline
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No fert, NO FERT (it makes everything grow, just has more P) no pre-em, cut as low as reasonably possible before seeding, keep low until germination to allow light, scrape to get soil contact, use twice recommended seed rate if lawn is well-established, use correct variety (PRG? KBG?), pray early and often.
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  #14  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:39 AM
Darryl G Darryl G is offline
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Yeah, praying makes a huge difference.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:50 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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I wonder why one would seed ,,, let alone double seed,,, on well established lawns...

Right after gerimation the next priority would be to: get the root to grow deeper into the soil rather than just lolli-gag at the surface, sucking up water soluable NPK...
This is where the correct water/air ratio becomes even more important...

Besides, are the soils at such a low level of fertility that we need to put a fresh supply of NPK right at the surface??? Certain realities,,, nullify other tradtions...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
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  #16  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:56 AM
Darryl G Darryl G is offline
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Personally I use a starter fertilizer before I seed. Phosphorus isn't very mobile in soil, so your best bet of getting it into the root zone is before you seed. Opinions vary greatly on these issues and you can pick a study that supports your particular views pretty easily...really not much of consensus.
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  #17  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:07 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by Darryl G View Post
Personally I use a starter fertilizer before I seed. Phosphorus isn't very mobile in soil, so your best bet of getting it into the root zone is before you seed. Opinions vary greatly on these issues and you can pick a study that supports your particular views pretty easily...really not much of consensus.

Logically,,, if it is not very "Mobile In The Soil"(i.e. P),,, then it shouldn't be expected to do much when applied at time of seeding (Logically,, it is not moving quickly into the depths of the soil)...
Putting down the in-motile element of P at the time of planting ,,, BECAUSE,,, the seedlings need P is a logical absurdity, when placed in the CONTEXT of seeding... (this could be fun)

I suppose that surface soluable N,,, is as attractive as surfaface soluable, P,,, as it might be to surface soluable,, K... Beyond those temptations,,, what should the seedling aspire to???

You tell me what is going to be BEST...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #18  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:22 PM
Darryl G Darryl G is offline
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Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Logically,,, if it is not very "Mobile In The Soil"(i.e. P),,, then it shouldn't be expected to do much when applied at time of seeding (Logically,, it is not moving quickly into the depths of the soil)...
Putting down the in-motile element of P at the time of planting ,,, BECAUSE,,, the seedlings need P is a logical absurdity, when placed in the CONTEXT of seeding... (this could be fun)

I suppose that surface soluable N,,, is as attractive as surfaface soluable, P,,, as it might be to surface soluable,, K... Beyond those temptations,,, what should the seedling aspire to???

You tell me what is going to be BEST...
Easily solved: When I overseed I aerate and slit seed, therefore the fertilizer does get down into the root zone. Within a week the seeds will begin to germinate and the P will be available to them. If I'm preparing a new lawn I fertilize and then go over the area with my tine rake to incorporate the fertilizer into the soil. Opinions vary, but that's what I do. Everyone else is free to do as they please.
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  #19  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:43 PM
maynardGkeynes maynardGkeynes is offline
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I would not add P (starter fert or otherwise) without a soil test first -- P deficiency cannot be presumed, and there are the runoff issues to consider. Not sure about the legalities of P use -- in certain jurisdictions it may be prohibited on residential. I would double seed because germination rate is going to be lower on an "established" lawn due to poor seed/soil contact. Higher rates, even greater than double, are required if intent is to establish a new variety to the existing lawn, e.g., introducing KBG into a TTTF lawn. You will simply not get establishment at normal rates, let alone at the 1/2 normal rate recommended by most seed companies. Quite a few university studies support the higher seeding rates on existing turf.
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  #20  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:47 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by Darryl G View Post
Easily solved: When I overseed I aerate and slit seed, therefore the fertilizer does get down into the root zone. Within a week the seeds will begin to germinate and the P will be available to them. If I'm preparing a new lawn I fertilize and then go over the area with my tine rake to incorporate the fertilizer into the soil. Opinions vary, but that's what I do. Everyone else is free to do as they please.
Only one problem with that form of logic:

Does grass ever Germinate between the 'plugs'???

I,,, personally eliminate the bare spots, first and foremost(between the plugs or not)...

Barespots on Memorial weekend show the weakness of the LCO,,, not necessarily the TURF...
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