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  #191  
Old 06-09-2013, 08:08 PM
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ProStreetCamaro ProStreetCamaro is offline
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Originally Posted by Ridin' Green View Post
No, I haven't yet GMLC. I asked about it last year before I bought my 950, but the only two Ferris dealers within any sort of halfway reasonable distance wouldn't allow it. I told them I needed a demo before I would buy and they said no dice. Then they'd have a used machine sitting on their floor and they didn't want that. They are both smaller Ferris dealers and don't want to keep a machine on inventory just for that purpose. I may try it again this year and se what they say.

I know I am really interested in demo'ing a 460 with the FX850. I will have a very hard time ever buying another Kohler powered machine after my last experience with one. The only reason that worked out for me was the fact the Deere warranties their engines instead of Kohler or Kawi.
Exact opposite for me. The fx921v was our last Kawi. Loud, gas hogging, oil burning, backfiring pos. Kohler has always given us 2500+ hour service life with minimal problems. The efi rocks so far. I would have normally used a half tank doing our Monday lawns but today I used just a little more than a quarter tank! The engine is so quiet you can't hear it over the deck noise. I got rid of the first 460 because of the engine and nothing else. Granted I did want the new deck but I wouldn't have gotten rid of it just to get a different deck. I know most people think opposite of us but we have had no luck with Kawi over the years.
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  #192  
Old 06-09-2013, 08:32 PM
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puppypaws puppypaws is offline
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Originally Posted by ProStreetCamaro View Post
Exact opposite for me. The fx921v was our last Kawi. Loud, gas hogging, oil burning, backfiring pos. Kohler has always given us 2500+ hour service life with minimal problems. The efi rocks so far. I would have normally used a half tank doing our Monday lawns but today I used just a little more than a quarter tank! The engine is so quiet you can't hear it over the deck noise. I got rid of the first 460 because of the engine and nothing else. Granted I did want the new deck but I wouldn't have gotten rid of it just to get a different deck. I know most people think opposite of us but we have had no luck with Kawi over the years.
Fuel injection is the only way to go if you have a choice, the engine is much more responsive, and the fuel economy is far better.

Bobcat will not offer the Kawasaki FX1000V only the FX1000V-DFI on their Bobcat Predator Pro, and I asked them why. I was told they did their own testing and the DFI was so much better in fuel economy they saw no reason to fool with the carburetor model. I asked them about the price difference and was told they bought so many they had worked a deal with Kawasaki so as the cost difference was almost nothing.

I like the closed loop system Kohler uses with the Delphi Components, but Kawasaki is working on a hybrid DFI; one that starts on a closed loop, and once it reaches a certain temperature changes over to an open loop system.
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  #193  
Old 06-09-2013, 11:44 PM
Ridin' Green Ridin' Green is offline
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I'd prefer an EFI or DFI over a carbed model any day, but not if it has to be a Kohler. I was a lifelong fan of them until the last couple I owned. They burned oil and smoked like a brush fire in the case of the last one.

It is possible to get a bad one from any manu, but seeing as the only two i've had any problems with were my last 2 Kohlers, it seems to me they are going downhill from what they once were. I may come across a bad Kawi, but I've owned a bunch of them over the years, and have yet to get a bad one. My oldest is 23 years old and just keeps right on running like a champ and doesn't use oil to this day. It has been run an enormous amount, and has been worked pretty hard at times too.

The comment PSC made about being loud is interesting to me. The Kawi's and Kohlers I've owned were all about the same as far as being loud or engine noises go. My current Kawi is quite abit bigger engine than my last Kohler, but there's so little difference in the noise they produce(d), you'd need a special instrument to determine it. The one redeeming thing I like about Kohler's are their hydraulic valve lifters.
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  #194  
Old 06-10-2013, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
Fuel injection is the only way to go if you have a choice, the engine is much more responsive, and the fuel economy is far better.

Bobcat will not offer the Kawasaki FX1000V only the FX1000V-DFI on their Bobcat Predator Pro, and I asked them why. I was told they did their own testing and the DFI was so much better in fuel economy they saw no reason to fool with the carburetor model. I asked them about the price difference and was told they bought so many they had worked a deal with Kawasaki so as the cost difference was almost nothing.

I like the closed loop system Kohler uses with the Delphi Components, but Kawasaki is working on a hybrid DFI; one that starts on a closed loop, and once it reaches a certain temperature changes over to an open loop system.
Why start in closed loop and switch to open?

That is the total opposite of how vehicles work. They start in open loop(no oxygen sensor input) then when warm go to
closed loop(PCM adjusts fuel based on oxygen sensor readings).
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  #195  
Old 06-10-2013, 06:40 AM
Mark Oomkes Mark Oomkes is online now
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I admit, I didn't read the whole thread, but we had the opportunity to try out a Gravely Z with the new deck and whatever they call their stander. I have no idea what deck it has.

In attempting to remain polite, trying these reinforced my decision to stick with Exmark Lazers\Turf Tracers and Toro Grandstands.

One other comment, good thing the Z is as fast as it is, since accounts need to be cut twice in order to receive the same QOC as Exmark or Toro.
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  #196  
Old 06-10-2013, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes View Post
I admit, I didn't read the whole thread, but we had the opportunity to try out a Gravely Z with the new deck and whatever they call their stander. I have no idea what deck it has.

In attempting to remain polite, trying these reinforced my decision to stick with Exmark Lazers\Turf Tracers and Toro Grandstands.

One other comment, good thing the Z is as fast as it is, since accounts need to be cut twice in order to receive the same QOC as Exmark or Toro.
Do you have any pics? Its the opposite here. Exmark needs double or triple cutting to look good.
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  #197  
Old 06-10-2013, 07:21 AM
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puppypaws puppypaws is offline
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Originally Posted by GMLC View Post
Why start in closed loop and switch to open?

That is the total opposite of how vehicles work. They start in open loop(no oxygen sensor input) then when warm go to
closed loop(PCM adjusts fuel based on oxygen sensor readings).
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That does not make sense to me either, but was definitely what I was told by Kawasaki, maybe they know something we don't about their hybrid system. I'll try to check and see if they are still working on the system, and what it does involve.

I have talked with different people on the same subject many times and get a totally different answer, kind of like they really don't want you to know. All I've ever owned is a total closed loop system, so I really have no idea how well their hybrid open loop would perform in comparison, or if in fact they do get it perfected to the point of implementation.

Why would you think Kawasaki has stuck with the open loop system instead of moving to a closed loop, of which is supposedly more efficient? The fuel test numbers Bobcat gave me from their extensive testing on the FX1000V-DFI was somewhat hard for me to believe, but they definitely believe them, and the reason they don't offer the standard carburetor engine. There may be, and probably is from the numbers I was given, more going on than they want known by the general public, what is it called...Trade Secret...

The oxygen sensor is the part that has always scared everyone on a mower engine, but not a part I've heard of very many problems with. I know I've never had a problem, the efi has always been flawless.
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  #198  
Old 06-10-2013, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by GMLC View Post
Do you have any pics? Its the opposite here. Exmark needs double or triple cutting to look good.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes View Post
I admit, I didn't read the whole thread, but we had the opportunity to try out a Gravely Z with the new deck and whatever they call their stander. I have no idea what deck it has.

In attempting to remain polite, trying these reinforced my decision to stick with Exmark Lazers\Turf Tracers and Toro Grandstands.

One other comment, good thing the Z is as fast as it is, since accounts need to be cut twice in order to receive the same QOC as Exmark or Toro.
Does it not amaze you how people find different problems with the same mowers, some lovers of a machine, some haters of the same.

That's why there are so many different colors I guess.

I meant to tell you, Bobcat told me they had seen fuel numbers down to as low as 1.05 gph (hard for me to believe possible) with virtually no load, but normally the big DFI Kawasaki was in the 1.3 gph range while the carburetor model was in the 2 gph range. I have checked mine and the lowest I've seen was 1.8, with over 2 being the upper side, meaning day in and day out it will probably average in the 1.9 gph range.

I will cut much more grass with the 1.9 gph than other mowers using lesser fuel amounts, but not enough grass to make up the difference on my efi which is at 1 gph. I can only cut probably 15 to 20% more grass with the big mower (6" wider deck and more speed), and to get back the money savings in gas I would need to cut close to 50% more grass, meaning the older efi mower is much more economical to operate.
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  #199  
Old 06-10-2013, 08:05 AM
gravelyman50 gravelyman50 is offline
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Originally Posted by GMLC View Post
Do you have any pics? Its the opposite here. Exmark needs double or triple cutting to look good.
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Im from Michigan and my x factor pro turn cuts amazing. I am very picky though and pay close attention so I have the correct deck pitch, razor sharp blades and correct air pressures.

See I think the problem is guys read these threads about how amazing these gravelys are and how good they cut grass. so they go and pick up a demo with dull blades and a deck that's probably pitched the opposite direction with different air pressures in every tire making you bounce all over the place giving u a crappy cut even if everything else is right.

In order for u to make a great mower deck cut great, u must understand what it takes to make that deck cut great. just my opinion.
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  #200  
Old 06-10-2013, 08:35 AM
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GMLC GMLC is offline
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Originally Posted by gravelyman50 View Post
Im from Michigan and my x factor pro turn cuts amazing. I am very picky though and pay close attention so I have the correct deck pitch, razor sharp blades and correct air pressures.

See I think the problem is guys read these threads about how amazing these gravelys are and how good they cut grass. so they go and pick up a demo with dull blades and a deck that's probably pitched the opposite direction with different air pressures in every tire making you bounce all over the place giving u a crappy cut even if everything else is right.

In order for u to make a great mower deck cut great, u must understand what it takes to make that deck cut great. just my opinion.
I do agree. Funny thing is LS now has guys all over the country running X-Factor decks with great results. So I always wonder what the story is when I here otherwise. I was told by Gravely they dominate sales in the south east and its thier biggest market. I know they cut great in cool season grasses and in Florida where my first demo was courtesy of Gravely. The rest of the country I can only go by what I here on LS and great people like you! Keep the info coming because it helps all of us make better decisions when buying equipment.
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