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  #61  
Old 05-26-2013, 09:36 AM
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GMLC GMLC is offline
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I have hundreds of pictures on LS of single cut lawns from spring to fall, dry and wet that prove decks can cut amazing in one pass. I have pics at ground level showing no stragglers. I love these guys that say I have 200 hours on a Scag and they suck. Or claim outrageous problems. I have also been doing this longer than I care to say and put way to many hours on my machines each year. I have owned Exmark and know very well how they cut and have stated it many times. In ideal conditions, no moisture, taking off 1/3 of the grass, not to thick you cant beat the cut. Any other factors forget it, double cut each lawn or clean up the clumps. Sorry but thats how it is in the northeast.

Exmark still dominates sales here. But their market share is dropping each year. People are realizing that their stubbornness is costing them money. I demoed different mowers for 3 months last year before I made my decision. And I didnt buy Scag...
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Last edited by GMLC; 05-26-2013 at 09:43 AM.
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  #62  
Old 05-26-2013, 09:58 AM
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Snyder's Lawn Inc Snyder's Lawn Inc is offline
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Originally Posted by mowzilla View Post
My walker MBV with a ml42A mulch deck will outperform any mower in wet grass. smooth cut , no clumps.
LOL maybe they work well in the grass in your state But here they don't Fescue here you cut it 2'' tall and in 5 days it'll be 6-7'' tall
To me they are a slow mower. In the right conditions they do leave a nice cut but dang they are slow.
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  #63  
Old 05-26-2013, 10:00 AM
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LifeBack Lawns LifeBack Lawns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMLC View Post
I have hundreds of pictures on LS of single cut lawns from spring to fall, dry and wet that prove decks can cut amazing in one pass. I have pics at ground level showing no stragglers. I love these guys that say I have 200 hours on a Scag and they suck. Or claim outrageous problems. I have also been doing this longer than I care to say and put way to many hours on my machines each year. I have owned Exmark and know very well how they cut and have stated it many times. In ideal conditions, no moisture, taking off 1/3 of the grass, not to thick you cant beat the cut. Any other factors forget it, double cut each lawn or clean up the clumps. Sorry but thats how it is in the northeast.

Exmark still dominates sales here. But their market share is dropping each year. People are realizing that their stubbornness is costing them money. I demoed different mowers for 3 months last year before I made my decision. And I didnt buy Scag...
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Now you got my curiosity up gmlc. What mower did you get and specs?
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  #64  
Old 05-26-2013, 10:14 AM
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GMLC GMLC is offline
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Now you got my curiosity up gmlc. What mower did you get and specs?
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I went with Gravely. Their customer service is second to none and the X-Factor deck is amazing. I just sold my last Scag with over 3000 hours! But dont get me wrong, I still compare all decks to the Velocity. There is a reason its the most copied deck in the industry.
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  #65  
Old 05-26-2013, 10:16 AM
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Snyder's Lawn Inc Snyder's Lawn Inc is offline
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Originally Posted by GMLC View Post

Exmark still dominates sales here. But their market share is dropping each year. People are realizing that their stubbornness is costing them money. I demoed different mowers for 3 months last year before I made my decision. And I didnt buy Scag...
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Exmark dominates here to I was talking to one LCO and he said he like run something else but there no dealer close he dumb when it comes working on it. This guy breaks a belt and takes to dealer they put a new one on.

Think there 7 LCO runs Exmark mowers in my town
1 LCO runs scag 2 running Dixie Choppers
2 running JD
1 running Hustler
1 badboy
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  #66  
Old 05-26-2013, 11:27 AM
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GMLC GMLC is offline
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Originally Posted by shovelracer View Post
They are different discharge philosophies with the decks. The Ultracut is a high vacuum recirculation style deck that will discharge much smaller pieces. The downside is that with the recirculation and vacuum it tends to stick together when wet and can clump more than one with a lesser lift. Now the Velocity deck is a lower lift fast discharge deck. It's design is to evacuate the clippings as quickly as possible. The downside is that the clippings will be larger and will leave more on the surface. The upside though is that it will discharge wet grass better (loosely used) and process more grass faster which could mean faster travel speed or taller grass before bogging.

Because of the Ultracuts high vacuum it will pull the grass vertical, then slice it, and then lay it slightly forward upon leaving. What this translates to is an extremely even cut and thorough consistent striping. The Velocity because of it's lower vacuum tends to not pick up the grass as vertical which has both benefits and problems. The benefit is that the grass will actually stay longer because it does not lift it as much before cut. This translates to a greener and sometimes healthier lawn. My experience though is that this can actually lead to increased fungal problems. The downside is that it will not pull the branching grass pieces out of the turf as well and will result in more stragglers and less consistent stripe.

So is a non double cutter a hack? That is hard to say. This time of year in the east coast the rule of third is not really realistic where the grass is growing 1/2"-1" a day. No deck regardless of make will process and "hide" the clippings with one pass on a manicured lawn. So on a cared for lawn it must be double cut most of the time for at least 6-8 weeks. This double cutting assumes tip top shape decks and really has nothing to do with them is has to do with getting the clippings off the top. Can you single cut, sure you can if your blades are sharp and the deck tuned right, but the real question is will your customer accept it? Single or double the lawn will look the same in a few days regardless. From personal experience though the real world result is that with red decks the double cut results in a very even surface height where every blade is vertical and exactly the same length. Again from experience the orange decks do not have the vacuum to do this and will result in an even surface height but uneven length blades at different angles.
If the grass is wet enough to clump on both decks than the red one will second cut much cleaner, where the orange one will usually not pick up the larger chunks. No deck is perfect and I have spent a lot of time scraping the bottom of both styles in wet conditions.

So It really depends on what you are cutting and the customer. If you need to mow tall fescue that grows 10"+ a week and do it efficiently than orange is your color. If you are more on bluegrass/new TTTF than red will give a better cosmetic appearance. In my mind a hack is someone that leaves clippings in the street, doesn't blow off the lawn if it clumps, rips it down to 2" when it's 90* all week, obvious signs of dull blades and clogged decks, etc. I do not consider double cutting in that thought process. You can be a hack with any machine.

Someone else asked about the Turbo Force. My experience is that it is not as strong as either in their respective areas. However it is a good universal deck. I find the newer ones to be much better than the old. I find it to be closer to it's red cousin, but shares some wet discharge traits with it orange friend. End result cuts well, not as dark a stripe as an Ultracut, but a higher lift than Velocity, less clumping than a Ultracut, but no where near the material handling capacity of the Velocity. We like our red Exmark and Toros, but if we had to cut large expanses of tall fescue than I would still have a Velocity and deal with the added maintenance and repairs.
Very good descriptions on both decks. I have done extensive reviews on both the Velocity and several of the Ultra Cut series decks over the years and have fine tuned both. You must of had a Scag lemon because I have personally had scags with 3000 hours, used a TT with over 5000 and have a dealer that has claimed 7000 on a TT.
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  #67  
Old 05-26-2013, 12:13 PM
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milo milo is offline
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hate??? they are one of the best mowers made.... exmark, scag, hustler and bobcats I put all up at the best out there....
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  #68  
Old 05-26-2013, 06:14 PM
yardguy29 yardguy29 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzilla View Post
My walker MBV with a ml42A mulch deck will outperform any mower in wet grass. smooth cut , no clumps.
I fell off my seat laughing after reading that.

walkers have there place but there is no way on this green earth a walker will out perform all others on the market.

personally I think walkers are garbage but I realize they could have there place depending on location. in my neck of the woods the only thing there good for is sucking up leaves. beyond that I'd rather dump the extra cash into one of the other brands I have available to me than own a walker.

thank god I can still have my toros and exmarks. I have access to scag, walker and wright stander and I'm not fan of any of those 3 but I'd buy a scag or wright stander before coming home with a walker. hell I'd close up shop before ever coming home with a walker.
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  #69  
Old 05-27-2013, 07:37 PM
caseysmowing caseysmowing is online now
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Thought about this thread today as I went by a crew cutting a small park at about 10:00am. Guy on a wb tt blowing first pass in the road. Two other guys on top end ztrs blowing out clumps everywhere. I knew exmarks clump but my god really!! It wasn't even that wet or tall. I know for a fact this crew underbid a guy who did good work with scags. I might go by tomorrow just to see what it looks like. I'm hoping they tried to double or triple cut it. Also they dont even do a 3 point turn just push 1 lever one way and pull the other one the other way. Tear it up!!
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  #70  
Old 05-27-2013, 07:48 PM
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gcbailey gcbailey is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caseysmowing View Post
Thought about this thread today as I went by a crew cutting a small park at about 10:00am. Guy on a wb tt blowing first pass in the road. Two other guys on top end ztrs blowing out clumps everywhere. I knew exmarks clump but my god really!! It wasn't even that wet or tall. I know for a fact this crew underbid a guy who did good work with scags. I might go by tomorrow just to see what it looks like. I'm hoping they tried to double or triple cut it. Also they dont even do a 3 point turn just push 1 lever one way and pull the other one the other way. Tear it up!!
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I would be willing to bet that they never clean their decks either, based on your assessment of how they are mowing... so there could be something to the "extra" clumping coming from the deck due to negligence.
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