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  #261  
Old 07-20-2013, 06:51 PM
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mag360 mag360 is online now
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Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
This is what I saw as well with a brand new deck...with you seeing the same thing I saw with the baffle out is verifying it's not a baffle issue with the 72" deck, but I do believe the baffle being removed would surely help a little.

What other ideas is out there to be offered, GMLC seemed to think it would be a totally different cutting deck with the baffle out, but you've now proven that theory to be incorrect, at least with the 72.
It is much better with the baffles out but the blades still don't generate enough flow to perform as well as the old deck. With the baffles in the lower position there seems to be an increase in discharge velocity with the stock blades since the sail is centered within the channel created by the baffles. It's a good design but gravely needs to source a better blade for the 72's ASAP.

Stock scag and exmark blades don't seem to have a high lift sail on them but definitely generate more airflow out the chute on our other machines due to the notched sail so hopefully they will be the ticket here.

For anyone new to the comparison notched sail blades generate more horizontal airflow and don't plaster the top of the deck as much with clippings because they don't have the transitional section of blade between the flat part and the sail that directs airflow straight up or up and in.
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  #262  
Old 07-20-2013, 06:59 PM
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GMLC GMLC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mag360 View Post
It's a good design but gravely needs to source a better blade for the 72's ASAP.
This is an understatement. I agree 100%. All I can think of is these were a sand blade for the southeast or Texas?
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  #263  
Old 07-20-2013, 07:03 PM
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puppypaws puppypaws is offline
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Originally Posted by GMLC View Post
That would be cured with highlift blades. I put Stens lower lift blades on my XF1 and the clippings hardly made it out of the deck. I then put them on my velocity deck with the same results. Both my 452 thread and the XF1 cut quality thread go into detail on the problem with low lift blades.

My experience with my 52" tells me it would have helped to adjust or remove the baffles. But we will never know on the 72" in your conditions because you refused too....
I think "mag360" just stated with the baffle out he saw exactly the same thing I saw, to me that's saying if I had totally removed the baffle I would have seen the same results with the 72" deck. We are now down to blades making all the difference. I would love for you to get you hands on a 72 if the chance ever comes up, this way we would know for sure if the smaller deck could be making the difference you are seeing. Twenty inches more grass in a cutting width for a deck to deal with is a lot of grass.
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  #264  
Old 07-20-2013, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
I think "mag360" just stated with the baffle out he saw exactly the same thing I saw, to me that's saying if I had totally removed the baffle I would have seen the same results with the 72" deck. We are now down to blades making all the difference. I would love for you to get you hands on a 72 if the chance ever comes up, this way we would know for sure if the smaller deck could be making the difference you are seeing. Twenty inches more grass in a cutting width for a deck to deal with is a lot of grass.
I would love to try a 472. Mag has posted many times in several threads that removing the baffles greatly helps. The low lift blades are giving him a serious problem now because they cant generate enough velocity in a wide open deck. My scag velocity decks and XF1 were the same way with low lifts and Id bet the VX4 would be as well.

Last edited by GMLC; 07-20-2013 at 07:13 PM.
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  #265  
Old 07-20-2013, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
I think "mag360" just stated with the baffle out he saw exactly the same thing I saw, to me that's saying if I had totally removed the baffle I would have seen the same results with the 72" deck. We are now down to blades making all the difference. I would love for you to get you hands on a 72 if the chance ever comes up, this way we would know for sure if the smaller deck could be making the difference you are seeing. Twenty inches more grass in a cutting width for a deck to deal with is a lot of grass.
Much better with the baffles out - I'll try to find my earlier post with pictures of clumping without baffles. That's as bad as I've seen it. I know the grass doesn't look high but that is a south facing open field full of thick, weedy field grass and is one of the most challenging properties to get a good result on for any mower - scag included. The bush hogging yesterday was on a hot, dry day and the material didn't stick together as much. It was just interesting to see the difference in discharge velocity while moving at a snail's pace so I could really concentrate on it. We were mowing 4-6 ft tall grass and reeds in some places that hadn't been touched since fall 2012 so I was happy the deck was able to handle the little bit of mowing around the edges where we didn't want to take the takeuchi and ambusher. So again, just noting that the xf1 deck with high lifts and 60 inch cutting width has a better discharge than the xf2 with standard blades, baffles removed, and 72 inch cutting width.
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  #266  
Old 07-20-2013, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mag360 View Post
Much better with the baffles out - I'll try to find my earlier post with pictures of clumping without baffles. That's as bad as I've seen it. I know the grass doesn't look high but that is a south facing open field full of thick, weedy field grass and is one of the most challenging properties to get a good result on for any mower - scag included. The bush hogging yesterday was on a hot, dry day and the material didn't stick together as much. It was just interesting to see the difference in discharge velocity while moving at a snail's pace so I could really concentrate on it. We were mowing 4-6 ft tall grass and reeds in some places that hadn't been touched since fall 2012 so I was happy the deck was able to handle the little bit of mowing around the edges where we didn't want to take the takeuchi and ambusher. So again, just noting that the xf1 deck with high lifts and 60 inch cutting width has a better discharge than the xf2 with standard blades, baffles removed, and 72 inch cutting width.
I just finished mowing some areas with the XR-7, when I came back down my drive I turned the deck on to see the difference in discharge air speed while blowing a little trash off the asphalt. The XR-7 I've never considered very good when blowing off asphalt, mediocre at best, but when comparing to the discharge velocity of the 472 it was much more powerful.

I can fully understand the grass falling out of the discharge opening, the 472 virtually had no discharge velocity at all, to the point it will blow some grass off the pavement, but leave more than it moves if the clippings are scattered and thin.

This is something that definitely needs to be addressed, the only good clean cut I saw with the 472 while producing a reasonable discharge was in somewhat drier grass while cutting at 2.75" on the dial-a-height, but when measuring the cutting edge of the blade to concrete, it was actually 1/4" lower.

These mowers should go to the owner or person demoing the mower ready to cut grass to the best of its ability. You should not need to figure out what blades you need to install, or whether you do need, or don't need the baffle. This can cause a lot of sales to be lost, many people have not had experience playing with these changes, and for a mower to be demoed new with the results I saw, most people want say anything, they will just try another mower.
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  #267  
Old 07-20-2013, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
I just finished mowing some areas with the XR-7, when I came back down my drive I turned the deck on to see the difference in discharge air speed while blowing a little trash off the asphalt. The XR-7 I've never considered very good when blowing off asphalt, mediocre at best, but when comparing to the discharge velocity of the 472 it was much more powerful.

I can fully understand the grass falling out of the discharge opening, the 472 virtually had no discharge velocity at all, to the point it will blow some grass off the pavement, but leave more than it moves if the clippings are scattered and thin.

This is something that definitely needs to be addressed, the only good clean cut I saw with the 472 while producing a reasonable discharge was in somewhat drier grass while cutting at 2.75" on the dial-a-height, but when measuring the cutting edge of the blade to concrete, it was actually 1/4" lower.

These mowers should go to the owner or person demoing the mower ready to cut grass to the best of its ability. You should not need to figure out what blades you need to install, or whether you do need, or don't need the baffle. This can cause a lot of sales to be lost, many people have not had experience playing with these changes, and for a mower to be demoed new with the results I saw, most people want say anything, they will just try another mower.
I agree those blades should not be on that machine. Baffles would have been fine if you actually cut a lawn, even a semi wet lawn. As a commercial cutter that cuts in all different conditions everyday the adjustable baffles are a huge plus. I can fine tune my lift on thick and thin lawns. And when I have to cut in the rain baffles come off. No other deck offers that versatility.

Last edited by GMLC; 07-20-2013 at 09:10 PM.
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  #268  
Old 07-20-2013, 09:14 PM
CurbAppealKS CurbAppealKS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMLC View Post
I agree those blades should not be on that machine. Baffles would have been fine if you acctually cut a lawn, even a semi wet lawn. As a commercial cutter that cuts in all different conditions everyday the adjustable baffles are a huge plus. I can fine tune my lift on thick and thin lawns. And when I have to cut in the rain baffles come off. No other deck offers that versatility.
The condition that puppy lets his property get to in between mowings is borderline too much for even commercial mowers to produce a good cut in. I understand there has been a lot of rain, but two weeks in between cutting on rain soaked, naturally fertilized grass is too much. No mower will live up to commercial cutters' expectations in those conditions.
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  #269  
Old 07-20-2013, 09:21 PM
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GMLC GMLC is offline
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Originally Posted by CurbAppealKS View Post
The condition that puppy lets his property get to in between mowings is borderline too much for even commercial mowers to produce a good cut in. I understand there has been a lot of rain, but two weeks in between cutting on rain soaked, naturally fertilized grass is too much. No mower will live up to commercial cutters' expectations in those conditions.
I agree and stated several times that both machines produced an unacceptable cut in all of his pics. Even the double cut pics. I know he has manicured grass because I have seen his pics in other threads about the VX4 cut quality. In those threads only 1-2" of grass was taken off. It would of been nice to see the 472 cut in those conditions and then we could compare cut quality.
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  #270  
Old 07-20-2013, 09:26 PM
CurbAppealKS CurbAppealKS is offline
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Originally Posted by GMLC View Post
I agree and stated several times that both machines produced an unacceptable cut in all of his pics. Even the double cut pics. I know he has manicured grass because I have seen his pics in other threads about the VX4 cut quality. In those threads only 1-2" of grass was taken off. It would of been nice to see the 472 cut in those conditions and then we could compare cut quality.
I agree completely. His manicured stuff looks great, but I'm confident that any mower could give the same results. I feel like this wasn't a completely thorough review if all variables weren't equal. I think the gravely should have at least been given a chance on that stuff and he should have tried different combos with the baffles. I understand what everyone is saying about the blades as that would have a huge impact on the results. That's just my opinion though.
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