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  #291  
Old 07-21-2013, 02:35 PM
CurbAppealKS CurbAppealKS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
What could possibly be intentional when cutting one pass with one brand mower, moving over to the next pass directly beside the other mower's pass and cutting it with a different brand mower, then making a picture of side by side cuts.

You now need to explain what would be a better comparison? You keep making the statement, "the pictures clearly show how this review was conducted," you really need to explain this statement. How much clearer comparison can you get than a side by side comparison?

This was an out of the box comparison with two different brand mowers, and we can hear all day about how much difference there would be if this and that were changed. Would you not think a company knowing a mower was being demoed would set it up to cut the best it possibly can, or do you believe the company representatives possibly have no idea of how their mower should be set up for specific conditions? You answer this question?

You can cut one acre side by side with two different brand mowers, and it will not allow you to see the clarity of cut between two mowers as will side by side passes. The grass is not only the same, but so are the ground undulations.

You may find this interesting, I talked with the gentleman at church this morning, the one that has probably been mowing as a sideline business for maybe 20 yrs., just guessing.

I told him I was not impressed with the cut or discharge of the 472, he said, "after cutting in the wet conditions we've had this year I'm not nearly as impressed myself, my 12 yr. old 260 is doing a much better job. I went to cut a friend's grass yesterday that had not been cut in two weeks, I cut it in the transport height position and the engine could not handle the wet grass, it was falling out of the discharge opening and I've taken the baffle completely out, I was actually forced to stop every few feet and bounce the deck trying to get the wet grass to fall out, I thought I would never finish, and when I did it was a total disaster. I told him I needed to come back in about 3 days if it did not rain and try to get it into reasonable shape."

This was said in church this morning, so more than likely the truth was being told.

Look back through this post, I do want you to answer the questions I asked honestly, and to the best of your ability.
Puppy sometimes I think you are so dense and stubborn you can't see past your nose to know what we are talking about.

You keep talking about the mowers were straight out of the box. We BELIEVE you! What the others and I have been getting at is that even though they were straight out if the box, they were not on level playing fields.

Did you explain to your dealer that you were going to essentially be brush hogging with the gravely? Did they know what you were going to try and cut with the mower? The fact that the deck can be set up for those conditions, but yet they weren't tells me that either 1 they didnt know, or 2 the dealer you demoed the mower from doesnt know their product well. Hopefully it's the first because the latter would be a terrible reason to lose sales.

Let me spell it out for you. Would you not agree that the hustler has a more open, less tightly baffled deck than the gravely from the factory? The gravely deck can be wide open if the baffles are removed, making it more like the vx4 deck. The fact that the baffles were never removed is the reason we are saying that this review wasn't completely fair. Neither machines are made to brush hog, but had the decks been set up as similar as possible I feel you would get completely different results. Would they have been better than the hustler, I would say no because there is no machine that will cut that long crap and make it look good. We just wish you would have given them both an equal chance.
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  #292  
Old 07-21-2013, 02:54 PM
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GMLC GMLC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
What could possibly be intentional when cutting one pass with one brand mower, moving over to the next pass directly beside the other mower's pass and cutting it with a different brand mower, then making a picture of side by side cuts.

You now need to explain what would be a better comparison? You keep making the statement, "the pictures clearly show how this review was conducted," you really need to explain this statement. How much clearer comparison can you get than a side by side comparison?

This was an out of the box comparison with two different brand mowers, and we can hear all day about how much difference there would be if this and that were changed. Would you not think a company knowing a mower was being demoed would set it up to cut the best it possibly can, or do you believe the company representatives possibly have no idea of how their mower should be set up for specific conditions? You answer this question?

You can cut one acre side by side with two different brand mowers, and it will not allow you to see the clarity of cut between two mowers as will side by side passes. The grass is not only the same, but so are the ground undulations.

You may find this interesting, I talked with the gentleman at church this morning, the one that has probably been mowing as a sideline business for maybe 20 yrs., just guessing.

I told him I was not impressed with the cut or discharge of the 472, he said, "after cutting in the wet conditions we've had this year I'm not nearly as impressed myself, my 12 yr. old 260 is doing a much better job. I went to cut a friend's grass yesterday that had not been cut in two weeks, I cut it in the transport height position and the engine could not handle the wet grass, it was falling out of the discharge opening and I've taken the baffle completely out, I was actually forced to stop every few feet and bounce the deck trying to get the wet grass to fall out, I thought I would never finish, and when I did it was a total disaster. I told him I needed to come back in about 3 days if it did not rain and try to get it into reasonable shape."

This was said in church this morning, so more than likely the truth was being told.

Look back through this post, I do want you to answer the questions I asked honestly, and to the best of your ability.
My opinion on how the comparison was done is worthless because it cant be verified. I do know other professionals on LS have the same opinion.

You know Gravely would have set up the mower differently if they knew what you were cutting.
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  #293  
Old 07-21-2013, 05:01 PM
Razorblades Razorblades is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMLC View Post
My opinion on how the comparison was done is worthless because it cant be verified. I do know other professionals on LS have the same opinion.

You know Gravely would have set up the mower differently if they knew what you were cutting.
Do you know if there are high lift blades available for the 72" Xf1 or XF2 decks? From everything I've read on this thread, which is nearly every post, it seems to be more of a blade issue than a baffle in-baffle out issue.

I think that if PP would have been able to demo the Gravely Pro Turn 472 in his normal conditions (dryer) and getting to mow in his normal 5-6 day frequency, this would have been a closer comparison. He can't help how wet and rainy it has been. I guess he could have postponed the demo until the conditions were dryer.

I might guess that he (like myself and a lot of others that have kept up with your different threads and posts about how your Gravely 452 has cut very well in soaking wet grass) figured that the 472 would do good in those conditions. I understand that you had to figure out what blades and baffle position worked best for the different types of conditions you have at different times.

Weather circumstances and cutting conditions kept this demo test from being very useful for the majority of people that that wanted to see how the Gravely performed in this scenario, in my opinion.

It is unrealistic to expect PP to be able to demo the Gravely in small, well manicured dry turf areas. He said early in his demo what types of grass he was cutting, at what speeds he was trying to cut at, what height he normally cut at, and he ALWAYS makes it very clear that productivity is his most important objective, for his uses.

I don't think that PP was trying to slant the contest /demo in favor of the Hustler. Sure, he could have removed the front baffle but I don't think (and a lot of you guys have speculated this, as well) he has a suitable blade to handle cutting that tall, wet grass at the high speeds that he was cutting at. He did say that he cut a small area at a slow speed (don't remember his estimated speed but it was pretty slow) with basically the same results.

In these conditions that he was dealing with, I believe he would have had better results with the Gravely Pro Ride series, based on my experiences with the Pro Ride mower and reading ALOT of the old EverRide threads from several years ago.
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  #294  
Old 07-21-2013, 05:38 PM
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puppypaws puppypaws is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CurbAppealKS View Post
Puppy sometimes I think you are so dense and stubborn you can't see past your nose to know what we are talking about.

You keep talking about the mowers were straight out of the box. We BELIEVE you! What the others and I have been getting at is that even though they were straight out if the box, they were not on level playing fields.

Did you explain to your dealer that you were going to essentially be brush hogging with the gravely? Did they know what you were going to try and cut with the mower? The fact that the deck can be set up for those conditions, but yet they weren't tells me that either 1 they didnt know, or 2 the dealer you demoed the mower from doesnt know their product well. Hopefully it's the first because the latter would be a terrible reason to lose sales.

Let me spell it out for you. Would you not agree that the hustler has a more open, less tightly baffled deck than the gravely from the factory? The gravely deck can be wide open if the baffles are removed, making it more like the vx4 deck. The fact that the baffles were never removed is the reason we are saying that this review wasn't completely fair. Neither machines are made to brush hog, but had the decks been set up as similar as possible I feel you would get completely different results. Would they have been better than the hustler, I would say no because there is no machine that will cut that long crap and make it look good. We just wish you would have given them both an equal chance.
Why do you not acknowledge what you are seeing, this is not as you called it, "brush hogging" but instead is a very clear cut picture of a cut pass made with the VX4 and 62 hr. blades, the pass just to the right was where the new 472 made its cut pass, of which you can see uncut grass standing up. The next photo is the Hustler sitting in that same 472 cut pass to give a better visual of uncut grass against the yellow background.

What I am hearing from you is all that is cut in your area is perfect grass, and this is a pure blend that only gets to 6" tall, then you cut it back to 3". This is a cutting scenario any mower deck should handle to perfection, but not a real world situation.

I cannot help the weather has caused the grass to get larger than normal, but the grass in these pictures are nothing but normal for this area of the country. The are no terrible disbursal problems due to the fact there is not a great deal of grass being processed by either deck. This is normal cutting in our area, it may be "brush hogging" in yours. I'm only pointing our what the pictures show, if don't care to believe your eyes, I can't help that fact.

I honestly believe the average person to find it helpful in seeing good grass cutting pictures along with large grass and weeds being cut.



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  #295  
Old 07-21-2013, 05:41 PM
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GMLC GMLC is offline
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Location: New Hampshire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorblades View Post
Do you know if there are high lift blades available for the 72" Xf1 or XF2 decks? From everything I've read on this thread, which is nearly every post, it seems to be more of a blade issue than a baffle in-baffle out issue.

I think that if PP would have been able to demo the Gravely Pro Turn 472 in his normal conditions (dryer) and getting to mow in his normal 5-6 day frequency, this would have been a closer comparison. He can't help how wet and rainy it has been. I guess he could have postponed the demo until the conditions were dryer.

I might guess that he (like myself and a lot of others that have kept up with your different threads and posts about how your Gravely 452 has cut very well in soaking wet grass) figured that the 472 would do good in those conditions. I understand that you had to figure out what blades and baffle position worked best for the different types of conditions you have at different times.

Weather circumstances and cutting conditions kept this demo test from being very useful for the majority of people that that wanted to see how the Gravely performed in this scenario, in my opinion.

It is unrealistic to expect PP to be able to demo the Gravely in small, well manicured dry turf areas. He said early in his demo what types of grass he was cutting, at what speeds he was trying to cut at, what height he normally cut at, and he ALWAYS makes it very clear that productivity is his most important objective, for his uses.

I don't think that PP was trying to slant the contest /demo in favor of the Hustler. Sure, he could have removed the front baffle but I don't think (and a lot of you guys have speculated this, as well) he has a suitable blade to handle cutting that tall, wet grass at the high speeds that he was cutting at. He did say that he cut a small area at a slow speed (don't remember his estimated speed but it was pretty slow) with basically the same results.

In these conditions that he was dealing with, I believe he would have had better results with the Gravely Pro Ride series, based on my experiences with the Pro Ride mower and reading ALOT of the old EverRide threads from several years ago.
Thanks for your opinion Razors. I respect you very much. Im not sure what blades are available for the 72" decks. I do blame Gravely for the blades. IMO its the blades and baffles. In my reviews I have posted many times how sensitive both decks are to blade changes and baffle changes on the XF2. With the baffle removed the deck would have opened up. But Im not sure if the low lift blades could have handled it. I just think it would have been nice to find out...
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  #296  
Old 07-21-2013, 06:02 PM
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GMLC GMLC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
Why do you not acknowledge what you are seeing, this is not as you called it, "brush hogging" but instead is a very clear cut picture of a cut pass made with the VX4 and 62 hr. blades, the pass just to the right was where the new 472 made its cut pass, of which you can see uncut grass standing up. The next photo is the Hustler sitting in that same 472 cut pass to give a better visual of uncut grass against the yellow background.

What I am hearing from you is all that is cut in your area is perfect grass, and this is a pure blend that only gets to 6" tall, then you cut it back to 3". This is a cutting scenario any mower deck should handle to perfection, but not a real world situation.

I cannot help the weather has caused the grass to get larger than normal, but the grass in these pictures are nothing but normal for this area of the country. The are no terrible disbursal problems due to the fact there is not a great deal of grass being processed by either deck. This is normal cutting in our area, it may be "brush hogging" in yours. I'm only pointing our what the pictures show, if don't care to believe your eyes, I can't help that fact.

I honestly believe the average person to find it helpful in seeing good grass cutting pictures along with large grass and weeds being cut.



I see 2' tall grass going to seed on the side. The cut section has straglers on the left and right with a some what better pass in the middle. It "appears" this some what better pass was a double cut.
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  #297  
Old 07-21-2013, 06:17 PM
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Mickhippy Mickhippy is offline
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Would of loved to see a 60 VX4 deck mowing that stuff!
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  #298  
Old 07-21-2013, 06:26 PM
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greenology greenology is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickhippy View Post
Would of loved to see a 60 VX4 deck mowing that stuff!
That would be great to see! Perfect comparison with the 72 VX4
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  #299  
Old 07-21-2013, 06:47 PM
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Mickhippy Mickhippy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenology View Post
That would be great to see! Perfect comparison with the 72 VX4
Sure would be! I had to cut a heap of stuff like that last season. I would never get a great cut in those conditions. Well, the cut was good but the discharge was rubbish. Clumps, spits etc etc.

Mowed a place last week, started to drizzle while I was there and you could see how the deck got worse over the course of the mow. My VX4 is absolute cr@p with any water on the grass. It would of been clump city (clump skyscrapers) on Puppys demo grass!

How about it Puppy, any chance of putting a 60 next to yours?

Last edited by Mickhippy; 07-21-2013 at 06:51 PM.
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  #300  
Old 07-21-2013, 06:53 PM
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puppypaws puppypaws is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMLC View Post
I see 2' tall grass going to seed on the side. The cut section has straglers on the left and right with a some what better pass in the middle. It "appears" this some what better pass was a double cut.

The very top of the seed heads are approximately 14" tall, which if you will look at the mower it measures 12" to the top of the tire. The majority of grass being cut was approximately 8 to 10" tall. The cut you see next to the uncut grass was cut with the VX4, and for you to say it was double cut when I tell you it wasn't is calling me untrustworthy, when in reality all you are attempting to do is discredit what your eyes have told your brain is a much better and cleaner cut, of which you really don't want to admit.

I have no love affair with any mower, I just happen to know what works by far best in my area. I don't care if the mower is pink, if it cuts as good but faster than the others of different colors, that will be my mower. Think about it from a reasonable standpoint, I can run any mower I so choose, so for me to run one particular brand is saying the mower is best suited for my cutting situation.

All this is showing was how both mowers perform side by side with no changes made to either machine.

Now, you tell me why you would think the cut that looks so much better was double cut, give me your technique for deciding if a mowing pass has in fact been double cut? I feel assured there is some scientific means behind your deduction, or could it have been for the fact "Mickhippy" asked the question; if I had cut back over the top of the 472 cut, of which I explained you cannot get a comparison by double cutting anything. There was no double cutting until I finished the pictures and recut all the grass left uncut by the 472.

You made mention of stragglers in both cuts, when in reality there is no uncut grass left in the VX4 cut pass, but a great deal in the 472 pass. Look at the first 3' of cut you see in the first picture, look at each blade of grass, and point out one you see uncut. Then look at the second picture getting a good view against the yellow background, and see if you can count high enough to give a number of uncut blades.

I would be totally surprised if you cannot find one uncut blade of grass when the blades had not been sharpened in 62 hrs. I would love to see your "professional cut" with blades that had never been sharpened in 62 hrs, but I already know your answer will be, "me being a professional, I could never afford to have anything but the sharpest of blades."

From your statement highlighted above, you really want to admit that yes, the Hustler cut does in fact look much better that the Gravely cut, but you just can't quite make yourself tell the complete truth, yet you want to say I'm telling an untruth about not double cutting. When you think about this, it is really quite funny.
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Last edited by puppypaws; 07-21-2013 at 06:58 PM.
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