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  #301  
Old 07-21-2013, 07:26 PM
CurbAppealKS CurbAppealKS is offline
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Puppy, I was stating that the conditions that you tested the mowers in behind your poultry barn was not something that a commercial mower was designed for. This is where my "brush hogging" statement came in. Can commercial mowers cut that? Yes, but they will not produce an acceptable cut in those conditions. Productivity wise, if you were to cut that tall of grass all the time you would be better off with a 15' batwing mower behind your tractor.

That being said, I am not implying that you tried to hold a biased opinion in the review. I'm saying that the gravely was at a disadvantage with the way the deck was set up. The fact that you would not remove the baffles to try and open up the deck plays into that as well. Would it have changed anything? I can honestly say I don't know, but in theory if the deck were more free flowing then it should have helped at least somewhat.
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  #302  
Old 07-21-2013, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Mickhippy View Post
Sure would be! I had to cut a heap of stuff like that last season. I would never get a great cut in those conditions. Well, the cut was good but the discharge was rubbish. Clumps, spits etc etc.

Mowed a place last week, started to drizzle while I was there and you could see how the deck got worse over the course of the mow. My VX4 is absolute cr@p with any water on the grass. It would of been clump city (clump skyscrapers) on Puppys demo grass!

How about it Puppy, any chance of putting a 60 next to yours?
Mick, what you see in these pictures is this, the first pass next to the chicken house was made with the Gravely at about 3/4 of the deck width due to a ridge of grass next to the house. All passes were made in the same direction so as to move the clippings towards the corn field to the right, and give an equal cut comparison. I cut in the direction towards the trees you see at my house. I turned and came back along the side of the corn field as I did when I made the first cut with the Gravely towards the back of the chicken house.

The second cut, the one of which the Hustler is sitting in to give contrast to the picture was also cut with the Gravely. I had already made the big mess you saw at the back of the house while cutting with the Gravely. I then drove the Gravely to where the Super Z was and changed mowers. I came back and made another pass beside the corn field enabling me to get to the back of the chicken house without disturbing what the Gravely had done. I made the cut comparison at the back of the house in big, but also much thicker grass. I then made the next pass down the length of the chicken house in the same direction as both Gravely passes had been made. I not only cut the next pass beside the Gravely, I also picked up the discharged clippings from the Gravely and discharged them with the grass the Hustler was cutting.

The reason you see no clippings laying on top is because the VX4 fanned them out so evenly they fell down into the uncut grass.

Can you follow exactly what took place, and that there was nothing double cut. Can you and everyone else understand, had the Gravely impressed me in the least bit over my Super Z, they would have never come back to pick up the Gravely? The biggest problem I would have with the Gravely for my particular cutting is it would not cut enough grass per hr. to suit my needs.

I could get a 60" more than likely, but honestly have no reason to waste my time fooling with the machine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CurbAppealKS View Post
Puppy, I was stating that the conditions that you tested the mowers in behind your poultry barn was not something that a commercial mower was designed for. This is where my "brush hogging" statement came in. Can commercial mowers cut that? Yes, but they will not produce an acceptable cut in those conditions. Productivity wise, if you were to cut that tall of grass all the time you would be better off with a 15' batwing mower behind your tractor.

That being said, I am not implying that you tried to hold a biased opinion in the review. I'm saying that the gravely was at a disadvantage with the way the deck was set up. The fact that you would not remove the baffles to try and open up the deck plays into that as well. Would it have changed anything? I can honestly say I don't know, but in theory if the deck were more free flowing then it should have helped at least somewhat.
This statement makes sense, but as I had already stated, I was not about to begin disassembling a mower I don't own. The rep told me later he would like for me to remove the baffle for the fact he would also like to know the difference it made. This is when my dealer needed the mower for another demo. The rep told my dealer he would like for me to try the mower without the baffle, and this may eventually be made to happen, but in all honesty I don't really care.
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Last edited by puppypaws; 07-21-2013 at 07:34 PM.
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  #303  
Old 07-21-2013, 07:50 PM
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greenology greenology is offline
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[QUOTE=puppypaws;4821171]Mick, what you see in these pictures is this, the first pass next to the chicken house was made with the Gravely at about 3/4 of the deck width due to a ridge of grass next to the house. All passes were made in the same direction so as to move the clippings towards the corn field to the right, and give an equal cut comparison. I cut in the direction towards the trees you see at my house. I turned and came back along the side of the corn field as I did when I made the first cut with the Gravely towards the back of the chicken house.

The second cut, the one of which the Hustler is sitting in to give contrast to the picture was also cut with the Gravely. I had already made the big mess you saw at the back of the house while cutting with the Gravely. I then drove the Gravely to where the Super Z was and changed mowers. I came back and made another pass beside the corn field enabling me to get to the back of the chicken house without disturbing what the Gravely had done. I made the cut comparison at the back of the house in big, but also much thicker grass. I then made the next pass down the length of the chicken house in the same direction as both Gravely passes had been made. I not only cut the next pass beside the Gravely, I also picked up the discharged clippings from the Gravely and discharged them with the grass the Hustler was cutting.

The reason you see no clippings laying on top is because the VX4 fanned them out so evenly they fell down into the uncut grass.

Can you follow exactly what took place, and that there was nothing double cut. Can you and everyone else understand, had the Gravely impressed me in the least bit over my Super Z, they would have never come back to pick up the Gravely? The biggest problem I would have with the Gravely for my particular cutting is it would not cut enough grass per hr. to suit my needs.

I could get a 60" more than likely, but honestly have no reason to waste my time fooling with the machine.
QUOTE]

That's a shame Puppy, you don't care about poor Mick & Greeno ? We'd love to see your opinion on the 60 VX4 & for you it would be just your simple love of mowing & comparing how different ZTRs/Decks perform. Gee it would be good to see your results with your Northern grasses & due to your honesty putting forward your opinion to Hustler afterwards, reinforcing the problem with the 60 VX4 to them. You have showed in this review that you wouldn't like those clumps & even your wife notices the difference in a poor cut, so you wouldn't own the 60 SZ I'm sure of that, (if u needed a 60" that is)
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  #304  
Old 07-21-2013, 07:57 PM
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Mickhippy Mickhippy is offline
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Puppy, Im not saying your VX4 didnt discharge better, going off one of these pics it did... http://www.lawnsite.com/showpost.php...05&postcount=6
The only problem is that the Gravely dealer didnt set the deck up with med-HL blades, baffle could of been opened up or what ever.
I believe you are being 100% honest with everything your saying. Its just that the 2 machines are set up differently and your demoing in grass that youve never seen this bad before and in conditions that havent been seen since the '30s.
Ok so the SZ cuts this stuff better than the Gravely, cool, but these arent your usual conditions. I wouldnt expect any machine to leave perfect results, I wouldnt even expect it from mine.
This demo was doomed from the start just due to the weather! Know ones fault except the rain Gods.

Now, I realise you wont go for a 60" deck but I was just saying that it would be great to see a side by side of the 60 v 72 to show if you got the same results as I. You love the discharge of your 72, how does a 60 go on your turf? Just would of been an interesting exercise for many on here.
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  #305  
Old 07-21-2013, 08:01 PM
CurbAppealKS CurbAppealKS is offline
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This statement makes sense, but as I had already stated, I was not about to begin disassembling a mower I don't own. The rep told me later he would like for me to remove the baffle for the fact he would also like to know the difference it made. This is when my dealer needed the mower for another demo. The rep told my dealer he would like for me to try the mower without the baffle, and this may eventually be made to happen, but in all honesty I don't really care.[/QUOTE]

In that case I guess it's a mute point.
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  #306  
Old 07-21-2013, 08:08 PM
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GMLC GMLC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
The very top of the seed heads are approximately 14" tall, which if you will look at the mower it measures 12" to the top of the tire. The majority of grass being cut was approximately 8 to 10" tall. The cut you see next to the uncut grass was cut with the VX4, and for you to say it was double cut when I tell you it wasn't is calling me untrustworthy, when in reality all you are attempting to do is discredit what your eyes have told your brain is a much better and cleaner cut, of which you really don't want to admit.

I have no love affair with any mower, I just happen to know what works by far best in my area. I don't care if the mower is pink, if it cuts as good but faster than the others of different colors, that will be my mower. Think about it from a reasonable standpoint, I can run any mower I so choose, so for me to run one particular brand is saying the mower is best suited for my cutting situation.

All this is showing was how both mowers perform side by side with no changes made to either machine.

Now, you tell me why you would think the cut that looks so much better was double cut, give me your technique for deciding if a mowing pass has in fact been double cut? I feel assured there is some scientific means behind your deduction, or could it have been for the fact "Mickhippy" asked the question; if I had cut back over the top of the 472 cut, of which I explained you cannot get a comparison by double cutting anything. There was no double cutting until I finished the pictures and recut all the grass left uncut by the 472.

You made mention of stragglers in both cuts, when in reality there is no uncut grass left in the VX4 cut pass, but a great deal in the 472 pass. Look at the first 3' of cut you see in the first picture, look at each blade of grass, and point out one you see uncut. Then look at the second picture getting a good view against the yellow background, and see if you can count high enough to give a number of uncut blades.

I would be totally surprised if you cannot find one uncut blade of grass when the blades had not been sharpened in 62 hrs. I would love to see your "professional cut" with blades that had never been sharpened in 62 hrs, but I already know your answer will be, "me being a professional, I could never afford to have anything but the sharpest of blades."

From your statement highlighted above, you really want to admit that yes, the Hustler cut does in fact look much better that the Gravely cut, but you just can't quite make yourself tell the complete truth, yet you want to say I'm telling an untruth about not double cutting. When you think about this, it is really quite funny.
In between the arrows is where I believe the super z cut. The arrows are pointing at the straglers on each side. So my guess was that pass was a double cut. How else would straglers be on each side?
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  #307  
Old 07-21-2013, 08:09 PM
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puppypaws puppypaws is offline
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[QUOTE=greenology;4821185]
Quote:
Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
Mick, what you see in these pictures is this, the first pass next to the chicken house was made with the Gravely at about 3/4 of the deck width due to a ridge of grass next to the house. All passes were made in the same direction so as to move the clippings towards the corn field to the right, and give an equal cut comparison. I cut in the direction towards the trees you see at my house. I turned and came back along the side of the corn field as I did when I made the first cut with the Gravely towards the back of the chicken house.

The second cut, the one of which the Hustler is sitting in to give contrast to the picture was also cut with the Gravely. I had already made the big mess you saw at the back of the house while cutting with the Gravely. I then drove the Gravely to where the Super Z was and changed mowers. I came back and made another pass beside the corn field enabling me to get to the back of the chicken house without disturbing what the Gravely had done. I made the cut comparison at the back of the house in big, but also much thicker grass. I then made the next pass down the length of the chicken house in the same direction as both Gravely passes had been made. I not only cut the next pass beside the Gravely, I also picked up the discharged clippings from the Gravely and discharged them with the grass the Hustler was cutting.

The reason you see no clippings laying on top is because the VX4 fanned them out so evenly they fell down into the uncut grass.

Can you follow exactly what took place, and that there was nothing double cut. Can you and everyone else understand, had the Gravely impressed me in the least bit over my Super Z, they would have never come back to pick up the Gravely? The biggest problem I would have with the Gravely for my particular cutting is it would not cut enough grass per hr. to suit my needs.

I could get a 60" more than likely, but honestly have no reason to waste my time fooling with the machine.
QUOTE]

That's a shame Puppy, you don't care about poor Mick & Greeno ? We'd love to see your opinion on the 60 VX4 & for you it would be just your simple love of mowing & comparing how different ZTRs/Decks perform. Gee it would be good to see your results with your Northern grasses & due to your honesty putting forward your opinion to Hustler afterwards, reinforcing the problem with the 60 VX4 to them. You have showed in this review that you wouldn't like those clumps & even your wife notices the difference in a poor cut, so you wouldn't own the 60 SZ I'm sure of that, (if u needed a 60" that is)
You are cutting old row crop fields, and like I told you on several different occasions, the 3100 Ferris is your mower, and after watching the video there is no doubt in my mind. There is honestly no mower other than the Ferris that will give a reasonably decent ride on the properties like you showed in the video. Mowing over cultivated rows in an old crop field is like trying to go over speed bumps with a vehicle, you will slow down.

I know there are still features you love about the Hustler, but it's probably not feasible keeping the mower unless you have enough larger properties that were not row cropped. The Hustler (if able to utilize the speed) will be by far more productive on large properties.

Get a mate and put the Ferris side by side in a race with the Hustler, you will be shocked at the speed difference. Can you make this happen?
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  #308  
Old 07-21-2013, 08:45 PM
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puppypaws puppypaws is offline
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Originally Posted by GMLC View Post
In between the arrows is where I believe the super z cut. The arrows are pointing at the straglers on each side. So my guess was that pass was a double cut. How else would straglers be on each side?
That is wrong, the Hustler deck is only 72", the picture size is throwing you off somewhat, the uncut grass left on the right side was under the Gravely. There can very well be a small amount of grass not completely cut on the very edge of the pass of the Hustler on the left side. I think this probable comes from the fact blades do become rounded on the very ends, and with these blades having 62 hrs. with no sharpening, that is more than likely the problem. With it being on the very edge I would pick it up on the next pass if it is indeed noticeable, and believe me, I leave nothing I can see left standing.

I will say we are now making progress, but I find it hard to believe you thought the Hustler deck extended over that distance. I think you can see the clean cut stands out very plainly...please tell me you see the Hustler did give a cleaner cut in this particular picture, only asking you to be honest, the same as I can guarantee I will be with you.



If you will look at the picture below and visually in your mind slide the Hustler over to the left moving it into the more ragged cut pass, you will then see where the Hustler tires would match up with where the Gravely tires ran, and this appears to be the problem. The tires mashed down the grass and the deck did not have enough suction to stand the grass up to be cut cleanly. I dropped the cutting height of the Gravely deck later on and eliminated this problem.

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  #309  
Old 07-21-2013, 08:56 PM
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GMLC GMLC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
That is wrong, the Hustler deck is only 72", the picture size is throwing you off somewhat, the uncut grass left on the right side was under the Gravely. There can very well be a small amount of grass not completely cut on the very edge of the pass of the Hustler on the left side. I think this probable comes from the fact blades do become rounded on the very ends, and with these blades having 62 hrs. with no sharpening, that is more than likely the problem. With it being on the very edge I would pick it up on the next pass if it is indeed noticeable, and believe me, I leave nothing I can see left standing.

I will say we are now making progress, but I find it hard to believe you thought the Hustler deck extended over that distance. I think you can see the clean cut stands out very plainly...please tell me you see the Hustler did give a cleaner cut in this particular picture, only asking you to be honest, the same as I can guarantee I will be with you.



If you will look at the picture below and visually in your mind slide the Hustler over to the left moving it into the more ragged cut pass, you will then see where the Hustler tires would match up with where the Gravely tires ran, and this appears to be the problem. The tires mashed down the grass and the deck did not have enough suction to stand the grass up to be cut cleanly. I dropped the cutting height of the Gravely deck later on and eliminated this problem.

No doubt it looks better in between the arrows. Thats why I thought that was all the Hustler pass.
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  #310  
Old 07-21-2013, 09:00 PM
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puppypaws puppypaws is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickhippy View Post
Puppy, Im not saying your VX4 didnt discharge better, going off one of these pics it did... http://www.lawnsite.com/showpost.php...05&postcount=6
The only problem is that the Gravely dealer didnt set the deck up with med-HL blades, baffle could of been opened up or what ever.
I believe you are being 100% honest with everything your saying. Its just that the 2 machines are set up differently and your demoing in grass that youve never seen this bad before and in conditions that havent been seen since the '30s.
Ok so the SZ cuts this stuff better than the Gravely, cool, but these arent your usual conditions. I wouldnt expect any machine to leave perfect results, I wouldnt even expect it from mine.
This demo was doomed from the start just due to the weather! Know ones fault except the rain Gods.

Now, I realise you wont go for a 60" deck but I was just saying that it would be great to see a side by side of the 60 v 72 to show if you got the same results as I. You love the discharge of your 72, how does a 60 go on your turf? Just would of been an interesting exercise for many on here.
I think as you well know and have alluded to many times, the moisture is giving you a great deal of problem, but the grasses you deal with magnifies the problems. When you have dry grass showing up in windrows there is definitely a buildup problem that has come about, and the grass is dropping from that problem location.

Did you find this to happen when the deck was new and the paint was still slick underneath the deck?

Do you ever cut signal grass anywhere during your cutting routine, and if so, have you cut any when it was really big and wet?
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