Register free!

The Green Industry's Resource Center



Reply
 
Thread Tools   Display Modes
  #31  
Old 07-11-2013, 02:13 PM
GMLC's Avatar
GMLC GMLC is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 4,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realslowww View Post
There not nearly as heavy duty, when I looked into updating the Hustler drive I had some lengthy discussions with Hydro techs and they told me the minimum system they would rebuild is of like the Super Z HD quality.

All the other stuff on all the other Z's they called it disposable but said that was good because they were cheap and easy to fix you just do not fool with rebuilding them.

They told me the problem with the 5400 type style all in one drives was they did not hold much fluid so it got dirty and broke down much easier.

The system the Hustler HD uses is really what is needed to take these mowers to the next level, you could put 2 speed wheel motors on that setup and have a mower that would cut at like 16 or 18 MPH and then pull 1200 pounds worth of tow behind mowers behind it in low speed torque setting at 10 or 11 MPH torque mode and have a Z in a class by itself as far as productivity goes,

Hustler should have done that rather than the 104. That 104 thing will turn out to be a novelty item because it is.

On a Super HD what you get for the money is a real bargain because the drive is way better and does not cost that much more. Puppy just needs to put the Gravely seat on a Super.
I was going to say... The 5400's are massive transaxles. Infact they have less than a 1% warranty claim rate. The are extremely strong and reliable. I dont recal how much oil I added when I serviced mine but I will look it up when I get done today. They are a different design than the hyperdrive but are still heavy duty.
Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-11-2013, 02:14 PM
Ridin' Green Ridin' Green is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 8,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realslowww View Post
There not nearly as heavy duty, when I looked into updating the Hustler drive I had some lengthy discussions with Hydro techs and they told me the minimum system they would rebuild is of like the Super Z HD quality.

All the other stuff on all the other Z's they called it disposable but said that was good because they were cheap and easy to fix you just do not fool with rebuilding them.

They told me the problem with the 5400 type style all in one drives was they did not hold much fluid so it got dirty and broke down much easier.

The system the Hustler HD uses is really what is needed to take these mowers to the next level, you could put 2 speed wheel motors on that setup and have a mower that would cut at like 16 or 18 MPH and then pull 1200 pounds worth of tow behind mowers behind it in low speed torque setting at 10 or 11 MPH torque mode and have a Z in a class by itself as far as productivity goes,

Hustler should have done that rather than the 104. That 104 thing will turn out to be a novelty item because it is.

On a Super HD what you get for the money is a real bargain because the drive is way better and does not cost that much more. Puppy just needs to put the Gravely seat on a Super.
This is all well and fine for speculating over, but all the Z's made today have extremely good hydro's in them for high hour lawn care. What you keep posting about is not lawn care at all, and therefore you should be looking in a totally different direction for what you want.

Pulling two towable mowers? That isn't lawn care at all. It is field and/or ditch mowing at best, and is a totally different game and discussion, and there are better heavier duty machines for that purpose.

Instead of keeping on posting about what you'd like to see, why don't you spend the money and make it, and I mean the entire machine from front to back? Then you could sell the idea/design to whomever you choose and be set for life.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-11-2013, 02:59 PM
Realslowww Realslowww is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melrose FL
Posts: 1,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMLC View Post
I was going to say... The 5400's are massive transaxles. Infact they have less than a 1% warranty claim rate. The are extremely strong and reliable. I dont recal how much oil I added when I serviced mine but I will look it up when I get done today. They are a different design than the hyperdrive but are still heavy duty.
Posted via Mobile Device
What you have is fine for a standard Z but the Hustler has a whole nother level of drive, it can pull a 2500 or 3000 pound machine at speed with no problem with the right wheel motor setup.

The pumps on the Super HD will pump like 25 Gallons of Hydro oil a minute, I researched it and the Hyper drive is way more heavy duty than anything else but it does not mean it is alot better only that it can do much more work load if need be, most do not need a drive that heavy.

If you are like mowing steep inclines all day or like pulling a load like tow behinds it would show you real fast how much better made it is, you would more than likely have boxes of 5400's going out to just changing fluid on a Super HD.

That system will run some serious wheel motors and handle like a 50 or 75 HP motor with no problem.

The only system I know that could possibly surpass it is the 3100.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-11-2013, 03:18 PM
puppypaws's Avatar
puppypaws puppypaws is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Marshville,NC 28103
Posts: 7,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMLC View Post
5400's not heavy duty??!!!
Posted via Mobile Device
The hydraulics operate very well on the 472, little different feel than the Super Z, and respond a little faster, but it did not take me 5 mins to get the feel, and it operate great. This entirely depends on the feel a person prefers, nothing more.

I had the seat air pressure jacked up to high, once I lowered the pressure it improved the ride considerably. The shortness in comparison of frames, and the standard forks definitely make you feel the bumps a little more pronounced on the 472.

The finish I consider to be as good as I've seen on any mower, and probably better than most.

The conditions I've been cutting in this morning were bad, already very wet from the rain yesterday, and rained on me several times this morning. The news said Charlotte which is 20 miles away had 5" of rain this morning in 2 hrs, causing severe flooding across their area.

These pictures are when I started this morning, and as you can see the clumping is very evident. I was forced to double cut most everything today.

One must remember, these are severe cutting conditions, as bad as it will get in my area. This is not doing the cut justice, and I feel with a few changes it can be improved on the cleaner cut side, I'm not sure the clumping can be resolved in wet conditions. Here again, it also has a great deal to do with the grasses being cut, pure stiff blade southern fescue would look totally different than cutting the junk I'm dealing with.

The VX4 will definitely fan the grass much better, yes, it will leave larger clippings on top, but they will be evenly disbursed, which in return gives a better overall look.
Attached Images
       
__________________
Farm Mower
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-11-2013, 03:34 PM
GMLC's Avatar
GMLC GMLC is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 4,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
The hydraulics operate very well on the 472, little different feel than the Super Z, and respond a little faster, but it did not take me 5 mins to get the feel, and it operate great. This entirely depends on the feel a person prefers, nothing more.

I had the seat air pressure jacked up to high, once I lowered the pressure it improved the ride considerably. The shortness in comparison of frames, and the standard forks definitely make you feel the bumps a little more pronounced on the 472.

The finish I consider to be as good as I've seen on any mower, and probably better than most.

The conditions I've been cutting in this morning were bad, already very wet from the rain yesterday, and rained on me several times this morning. The news said Charlotte which is 20 miles away had 5" of rain this morning in 2 hrs, causing severe flooding across their area.

These pictures are when I started this morning, and as you can see the clumping is very evident. I was forced to double cut most everything today.

One must remember, these are severe cutting conditions, as bad as it will get in my area. This is not doing the cut justice, and I feel with a few changes it can be improved on the cleaner cut side, I'm not sure the clumping can be resolved in wet conditions. Here again, it also has a great deal to do with the grasses being cut, pure stiff blade southern fescue would look totally different than cutting the junk I'm dealing with.

The VX4 will definitely fan the grass much better, yes, it will leave larger clippings on top, but they will be evenly disbursed, which in return gives a better overall look.
Adjust the baffles or take them right off for wet conditions. It should fan that discharge pattern right out for you.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 07-11-2013, 03:38 PM
Realslowww Realslowww is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melrose FL
Posts: 1,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridin' Green View Post
This is all well and fine for speculating over, but all the Z's made today have extremely good hydro's in them for high hour lawn care. What you keep posting about is not lawn care at all, and therefore you should be looking in a totally different direction for what you want.

Pulling two towable mowers? That isn't lawn care at all. It is field and/or ditch mowing at best, and is a totally different game and discussion, and there are better heavier duty machines for that purpose.

Instead of keeping on posting about what you'd like to see, why don't you spend the money and make it, and I mean the entire machine from front to back? Then you could sell the idea/design to whomever you choose and be set for life.
Hustler is pointing the direction on taking Z's to the next level of industrial type Zero turns to bridge the between Lawn mower and tractor gap. More people are realizing that a Super Duty Zero turn system is more productive overall than the big tractor.

These machines would be used in mowing huge park areas as well as miles of light road way areas where they cut the grass like every 2 weeks to once a month. Not interstate mowing but it could do that.

I mow a rest stop on the interstate and work with a guy who does some of the common area with me who works for the state and he has a Super Z as well he uses and he feels just like me that there is a good market for a Super Duty Z with duel wheel capability and that can pull small tow behinds.

He wants one to where he can run a tow behind off the side for one instance to go around a big lake so he does not have to weedeat it as much.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 07-11-2013, 03:43 PM
puppypaws's Avatar
puppypaws puppypaws is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Marshville,NC 28103
Posts: 7,826
I went back to start mowing and another terrible storm has arrived, a great deal of lightning strikes, and it is pouring rain.

Well Mick, I began cutting in your type grass a few minutes ago (Signal Grass), the grass was about 12" tall and wet, wet, wet. The 472 wanted absolutely nothing to do with that type grass, it was spitting out large globs, and I'm talking about the grass being so moisture laden, the deck could not discharge over 2', it was rolling big wads out from underneath the deck, just a flat out terrible mess.

The 921 never sputtered, and if the rpms dropped I could not hear or feel it happen. I'm talking the deck was rolling out globs so big I could have picked one up and half filled a 5 gallon bucket. I was looking and wondering how it could get out the discharge opening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMLC View Post
Adjust the baffles or take them right off for wet conditions. It should fan that discharge pattern right out for you.
I don't think there is a mower made that could come close to fanning the signal grass I was just cutting, if you've never had any experience with this crap you honestly can't imagine what it's like. This grass originated as a forage grass in Australia, and it hold moisture like no grass I've ever seen. Google signal grass, it's bad stuff.
__________________
Farm Mower

Last edited by puppypaws; 07-11-2013 at 03:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 07-11-2013, 03:43 PM
Ridin' Green Ridin' Green is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 8,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realslowww View Post
Hustler is pointing the direction on taking Z's to the next level of industrial type Zero turns to bridge the between Lawn mower and tractor gap. More people are realizing that a Super Duty Zero turn system is more productive overall than the big tractor.

These machines would be used in mowing huge park areas as well as miles of light road way areas where they cut the grass like every 2 weeks to once a month. Not interstate mowing but it could do that.

I mow a rest stop on the interstate and work with a guy who does some of the common area with me who works for the state and he has a Super Z as well he uses and he feels just like me that there is a good market for a Super Duty Z with duel wheel capability and that can pull small tow behinds.

He wants one to where he can run a tow behind off the side for one instance to go around a big lake so he does not have to weedeat it as much.
That I could see as being a good idea, and it would help keep the Z up on higher/dryer ground where there'd be less chance of sliding into the water, or sinking in where it is extra soft.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-11-2013, 03:55 PM
Ridin' Green Ridin' Green is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 8,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
The machine is designed and built extremely well. I really love the air ride seat, I like the simple clean look, I like the way it seems you can access everything very easily.

This is only a matter of personal preference, but I do not care for the external park brake, and this is due to the fact you are force to make more movement to accomplish locking the mower in position. With the Hustler once you put the steering levers into their set position the brake is locked. This is honestly a very nice feature, no thinking involved, get onto the mower, start the engine and drive off. With the Gravely you start the engine, find the hand-lever for the park brake, lower it, then move your hands back onto the steering lever to drive away. Not that big a deal, but believe me once a person uses the integrated brake system Hustler utilizes, it would be very aggravating to go back to the external brake.

The 472 weighs 1433 lbs, whereas the Super Z weighs 1600 lbs, this is a difference of 167 lbs many may not want, but this is also one of the factors that keeps the mower from moving as much when hitting small undulations, which in return makes for a more desirable ride.

The Super Z is 5" longer than the 472, and the exact same 5" shows up (I measured) between the tires. By the Super Z having a longer wheel base, this also adds to a better ride.

I would have thought the foot pan on the 472 may possibly have been higher, as well as the seat being somewhat higher. I measured, and the foot pan on both mowers is 15" from the concrete I was measuring from, and the seats were both close to 32" above the concrete level.

After measuring and finding out the operator is sitting the same off ground level tells me this makes no difference as to how much grass comes back onto the operator. I love the fact the Gravely keeps you much cleaner than the Hustler when mowing, and I believe this is totally due to deck design.

I am also thinking if the X-Factor deck had my Fusion blades it may very well help the cut somewhat, no proof, just my thoughts.

The Gravely is no where inferior in built to any mower of the same class. I could back into a tree or solid object hard enough to bend the back metal guard on the Hustler if traveling fast enough. The lazer cutting of the name in the rear guard of the Hustler has weakened the strength of what the metal was originally designed for.

The Gravely would make you kill yourself in an attempt to bend the rear guard, the pattern of lazer cut did not take away from the strength of the metal as was done with the Hustler. There is also a strapped addition around the top and near bottom of the rear guard on the Gravely, that looks twice as thick as the metal on the full rear plate of either mower.


Think of more things to check please let me know, I'm going to mow, it looks like it could rain any minute.
puppy-
can you use a level and check the tire height for me on the rear of both machines? The Gravely's look to be noticeably taller the the ones on the Hustler in your side by side pics. Also, did you check the PSI in the Gravely's? It's all too common for them to come from a dealer set way to high from/for shipping purposes.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-11-2013, 03:56 PM
GMLC's Avatar
GMLC GMLC is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 4,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
I went back to start mowing and another terrible storm has arrived, a great deal of lightning strikes, and it is pouring rain.

Well Mick, I began cutting in your type grass a few minutes ago (Signal Grass), the grass was about 12" tall and wet, wet, wet. The 472 wanted absolutely nothing to do with that type grass, it was spitting out large globs, and I'm talking about the grass being so moisture laden, the deck could not discharge over 2', it was rolling big wads out from underneath the deck, just a flat out terrible mess.

The 921 never sputtered, and if the rpms dropped I could not hear or feel it happen. I'm talking the deck was rolling out globs so big I could have picked one up and half filled a 5 gallon bucket. I was looking and wondering how it could get out the discharge opening.



I don't think there is a mower made that could come close to fanning the signal grass I was just cutting, if you've never had any experience with this crap you honestly can't imagine what it's like. This grass originated as a forage grass in Australia, and it hold moisture like no grass I've ever seen. Google signal grass, it's bad stuff.
Nothing like that up here!! Puppy any opinion on the isolated platforms and the vibration dampening?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:52 PM.

Page generated in 0.07888 seconds with 8 queries