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Old 05-17-2013, 01:14 AM
diyer999 diyer999 is offline
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Q: Mixing an FD oil at 32:1

I'm old and stubborn and I'd like an opinion about using an FD rated 100:1 or 50:1 oil, but mixed at 32:1, or at least 40:1 for both older and newer equipment? I refuse to believe that engineers prefer less lubrication. That 50:1 and 100:1 oil rating came about due to EPA mandates and all the politics involved. Engineers usually care more about lubrication than smog control. I did a bunch of digging into this topic and when the 50:1 was coming about, due to new epa regs, there were many engineers who did not believe that was enough lube in the fuel. I think there are statistics emerging that show that newer engines running on the 50:1 mix are not lasting as long as the older ones. So, as for me, I'm with the engineers, I never fell for the politics of it, the "green lobby." !#%&(*)@$^* Al Gore and his electric string trimmer! . . . and his Prius too!

A local equipment dealer said this to me: "Any oil is better than no oil and things get exaggerated, but if your equipment called for 16:1, or 32: 1, 40:1, whatever, use that mix amount with the current highest rated oil [FD oil]. If the rating gets better then use that but at the mix the equipment called for . . . however, but dont try to use an older oil mixed at 50:1, for example, on the newer equipment that calls for a 50:1 mix. Some say the oil determines the mix not the equipment. For some reason this guy thinks otherwise, and often says that those air adjustment screws that were on older stuff and not on the newer are why he advised the way he did, something to do with temps, etc.

Anyway, can I run the FD stuff at 32:1 and get the extra lube protection? If there has to be a problem, I'd prefer to clean the extra carbon off the plugs tan suffer a piston seizing, especially with the ethanol thrown into the mix (no pun intended).
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:19 AM
herler herler is offline
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You can do whatever you want and clog up exhaust ports and foul spark plugs and contaminate the atmosphere,
and you could re-invent the wheel, see if anything but round rolls better, too.

As for myself, I run synthetic 100:1 with super unleaded.
Never have had a problem.

But if you want to do it right and so you can't go wrong, I would encourage running
the RECOMMENDED oil with the RECOMMENDED fuel at the RECOMMENDED mix ratio.

By recommended I don't mean what who thinks is best,
by recommended I mean what the Owner's manual says.

Your choice.

Last edited by herler; 05-17-2013 at 01:24 AM.
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:01 AM
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GMLC GMLC is offline
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I fought it for years as a former tech and motorcycle racer. There was no way a 2 cycle would last at 100:1...

Well I was wrong. This is my second season running Amsoil at 100:1. My equipment has never run better and cleaner. A quick look through the exhaust ports shows plenty of lubrication. Amsoil has tested Saber Pro up to 300:1 safely and will back up your warranty if you have an oil related failure. Before Amsoil I ran Stihl HP Ultra at 50:1 for many years trouble free. Also a great oil.
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:28 AM
kawakx125 kawakx125 is offline
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the flip side of this is that the more oil you run, you are actually leaning out the engine i wont get technical but at 32:1 there are less fuel molecules making their way through the carb than at 50:1
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:05 PM
diyer999 diyer999 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herler View Post
You can do whatever you want . . . But if you want to do it right and so you can't go wrong, I would encourage running the RECOMMENDED oil with the RECOMMENDED fuel at the RECOMMENDED mix ratio. By recommended I don't mean what who thinks is best, by recommended I mean what the Owner's manual says. Your choice.
Well, that's just it -- what is best. My Redmax and Stihl String Trimmers, as well as, my Echo Hedge Trimmer and Blower all call for a 32:1 mix. But my newer Redmax Hedge Trimmer calls for a 50:1 mix. I can do separate mixes, but I prefer to use one mix for all, if possible -- the reason for the question.

So, I telephoned both Echo and Redmax and they said that I could use a 50:1 mix in the 32:1 equipment if it is the newer FD rated oil. But then I waited awhile and called them back another day and got a different person on the telephone each time [tech? engineer? customer service?] and they told me to use the mix that the manual says, i.e., the fuel cap (32:1), and to use the oil rating at the time the machine was manufactured, or a more recent rated oil, but not to use an oil of an earlier rating, say for 16:1 machines. Of course those older oils are no longer available. But it is not the rating I am referring to because I am considering the FD oils and better.

That is where the disagreement among the experts occurs, one expert says the machine determines the mix, but another expert says the oil determines the mix. So, who am I to say . . . this seems like an endless debate.

At any rate, the owner's manuals for the older equipment say 32:1. So, I figure that since most agree that the older equipment can safely be run on 50:1, then certainly the newer equipment can safely be run on the older mix of 32:1, correct ?
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:07 PM
weesa20 weesa20 is offline
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put in some lead additive for the ultimate lube...
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:15 PM
diyer999 diyer999 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMLC View Post
I fought it for years as a former tech and motorcycle racer. There was no way a 2 cycle would last at 100:1...Well I was wrong. This is my second season running Amsoil at 100:1. My equipment has never run better and cleaner. A quick look through the exhaust ports shows plenty of lubrication. Amsoil has tested Saber Pro up to 300:1 safely and will back up your warranty if you have an oil related failure. Before Amsoil I ran Stihl HP Ultra at 50:1 for many years trouble free. Also a great oil.
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See, that's just it, your equipment was designed to run this stuff, my equipment is both older and newer. Call this Echo dealer who is telling me I can use the FD oil but must use it at the 32:1 mix for the older equipment. His name is Lee, 610-647-3340, and he is adamant about this topic, but he hangs the phone up without going into the details of his reasons. See if you can get a logical responsible reply.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:40 PM
diyer999 diyer999 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawakx125 View Post
the flip side of this is that the more oil you run, you are actually leaning out the engine i wont get technical but at 32:1 there are less fuel molecules making their way through the carb than at 50:1
and your point is?
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:42 PM
diyer999 diyer999 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weesa20 View Post
put in some lead additive for the ultimate lube...
Are the authorities aware that you escaped!?
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  #10  
Old 05-17-2013, 03:56 PM
diyer999 diyer999 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diyer999 View Post
See, that's just it, your equipment was designed to run this stuff, my equipment is both older and newer. Call this Echo dealer who is telling me I can use the FD oil but must use it at the 32:1 mix for the older equipment. His name is Lee, 610-647-3340, and he is adamant about this topic, but he hangs the phone up without going into the details of his reasons. See if you can get a logical responsible reply.
I forgot to add this: This guy claims that the older and newer engines are totally different from each other. When I asked him how, what etc., he just keeps saying everything is different. I think maybe is he just so opinionated that he doesn't really have any logical explanation or he is just too busy trying to make money or both. I'm going to call Echo and see if they trained him in this topic.

I asked a mechanic and he said today's engines are a little bit different from engines of 20 years ago, but hardly any different than engines from 10 years ago. He said the oil has changed much more than the engines have.

At any rate, are engines designed around oils or are oils designed around engines? Perhaps that would yield better logical results to this ongoing debate. Last night, I read a thread where this guy was using two cycle marine oil and never had any issues . . . go figure.
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