Register free!

The Green Industry's Resource Center



Reply
 
Thread Tools   Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-29-2010, 12:43 AM
BleedingGreen BleedingGreen is online now
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SE MI
Posts: 158
Kohler CV20S Smoking BAD

I have a 2002 Exmark Lazer Z HP 48" with a Kohler CV20S (20 HP Kohler command Pro) canister filter. About 220 hours on it. I bought it used and put about 10 hours on it since.

Spec No. PS-65593
Serial # 3223914501

Like the title says, it's smoking BAD. It started smoking when first started after sitting overnight/a few days. Occasionally on start-up it would do it later on in the same day after it had been used earlier in the day. I mean this thing would SMOKE. Big ole cloud of smoke would shoot out and if in the garage, would fill the garage. Always a whitish gray smoke but would clear within about 5 seconds. I thought it was built up fuel (which I thought was normally a black colored smoke) from sitting so I began shutting the fuel shut off every time I shut the machine down. Sometimes it would smoke sometimes it wouldn't when starting after shutting off the fuel.

It just now is smoking while running too. Most noticeable when you drop the RPM's to idle. Just a steady stream of whitish gray smoke while idling. It smokes when you First raise the RPMs all the way up but then it stops pretty quick. Also when you engage and dis-engage the PTO for the blades it'll shoot out some smoke then stop if you raise the rpm's up like your going to cut. When dropping the rpm's to shut the PTO off it will pour out more smoke than when it is just idling but will eventually smoke about the same as when just idling. I saw blue smoke for the first time yesterday after cutting a lawn and had the machine at half idle while I was emptying the bagger. Haven't saw blue smoke since.

So I changed the spark plugs out today. One plug was pretty black around the threaded base of the plug but right around the electrode was a dull brownish color (which I think is good). The other plug was black, wet, and oily on the electrode, threads, and even on the metal washer on the plug threads. If your looking from the top of the engine with the base of the engine vee at your stomach, it was the left cylinder -V plug that was oily. So after changing the plugs out it still smokes the same as before. It even lightly smokes out the muffler pipe after shutting down the machine for half a minute. There is also a little brass screen (about the size of a pencil eraser)on what I think is the fuel pump (two gas lines go to a circular black piece on the side of the engine, same side as the oily plug, then one fuel line comes off the other side that goes to the carb) that has some smoke come out after the engine is shut down like the muffler. It too stops smoking after about a half a minute. The engine sounds good still. Doesn't seem to bog down under load or while cutting. No noises all the way through the RPM range and the oil level is where it needs to be atm. No visible oil that I've saw on the ground or on the engine. This just started happening and it had no indication when I looked at the mower before buying it. Too bad it's after I bought it.

Any Ideas????????? I know restrorob and a few others on this site are very good at diagnosing mechanical problems so I hope they can lead me in the right direction. This has been a very tight year so I'm hoping this can be fixed and is not the warning signs of a failing engine. If I can fix it rather than having it repaired by a shop that would be a huge plus. I can answer any other questions that might need to be asked and take any pictures that may be needed to help. THANKS!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-29-2010, 02:06 AM
topsites topsites is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Richmond Virginia
Posts: 21,677
I don't know but did you buy this engine from someone you know?

Because unfortunately it ain't looking good, there's but so much in ways of wishing it wasn't so,
even before the spark plug check, the fact you bought it used ...

Did you ever take a whiff of the oil, see if fuel had contaminated it?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-29-2010, 02:21 AM
BleedingGreen BleedingGreen is online now
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SE MI
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by topsites View Post
I don't know but did you buy this engine from someone you know?

Because unfortunately it ain't looking good, there's but so much in ways of wishing it wasn't so,
even before the spark plug check, the fact you bought it used ...

Did you ever take a whiff of the oil, see if fuel had contaminated it?
Nope, it was a shot in the dark. Bought it used from someone I've never met. BTW I bought the whole ztr not just the engine.

I checked the mower over when I bought it and it had NO idication of any mechanical problems. It just started acting up recently so either it was hidden really well or it's just bad timing. With Kohlers I've heard they smoke on start up and they have a history of other problems related to smoking so I'm hoping to find out where to start. I don't know if it's rings, head gaskets, reed valves, etc all of which I've heard Kohler had KNOWN problems with so

I looked at the oil several times, but I don't have a sense of smell so I have no idea if it smells of fuel. I can say the oil didn't seem burnt, looked used but ok, and wasn't thinned as if fuel was in it.

This is my 1st Kohler. I've had Kawi's on every thing else I've ever owned.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-29-2010, 02:25 AM
MS_SURVEYOR MS_SURVEYOR is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Mississippi
Posts: 1,002
Don't freak yet!

Could just be a head gasket?



Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-29-2010, 02:31 AM
BleedingGreen BleedingGreen is online now
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SE MI
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS_SURVEYOR View Post
Don't freak yet!

Could just be a head gasket?



Yeah I don't know. After doing a search and reading, that crossed my mind too, since only 1 plug was oily. However, usually when a head gasket goes doesn't it usually cause an external oil leak too???

I tried to be as specific as I could so hopefully someone who has Kohler exerience might have a really good idea of what is wrong. Maybe it will help someone else too. After all my reading, it doesnt seem to fit any 1 thread.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-29-2010, 01:03 PM
piston slapper's Avatar
piston slapper piston slapper is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tampa Fl
Posts: 4,027
It sounds like you have a broken reed valve...With smoke or oil venting out the fuel pump , its a sign of crankcase pressure. The reed valves are the usual suspect. They are pretty cheap to buy (about $2 @) but expensive to get to. You have to remove the heads on the vertical engines, which means you have to replace the head gaskets (about $22 a side).

You might get lucky and only have to pull 1 head ....Try this ...remove the valve covers and carefully look for a small flat square piece of metal (broken reed valve) . more often than not , the broken piece is laying inside the valve cover.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-29-2010, 10:32 PM
BleedingGreen BleedingGreen is online now
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SE MI
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by piston slapper View Post
It sounds like you have a broken reed valve...With smoke or oil venting out the fuel pump , its a sign of crankcase pressure. The reed valves are the usual suspect. They are pretty cheap to buy (about $2 @) but expensive to get to. You have to remove the heads on the vertical engines, which means you have to replace the head gaskets (about $22 a side).

You might get lucky and only have to pull 1 head ....Try this ...remove the valve covers and carefully look for a small flat square piece of metal (broken reed valve) . more often than not , the broken piece is laying inside the valve cover.
Yeah it's not a lot of smoke coming from the fuel pump screen, just a little, like about half the smoke of a lit cigarette when the engine is off.

What exactly is a reed valve? What does it do? Also did kohler update these parts? What causes it to fail/is there anything that can be done to prevent it from happening again? Lastly Is there one per side?

I'll go pop the valve covers off and look for any broken pieces. Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-29-2010, 10:55 PM
BigFish's Avatar
BigFish BigFish is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: chesapeake, va
Posts: 1,656
I would do a cyl leakdown test, it will tell ya whats goin on (or south).
__________________
" But let me tell you something ,folks: You can't fix stupid! There's not a pill you can take, there's not a class you can go to. Stupid is forever!"

......AMF!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-30-2010, 12:08 AM
BleedingGreen BleedingGreen is online now
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SE MI
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFish View Post
I would do a cyl leakdown test, it will tell ya whats goin on (or south).
How would one do a cyl leakdown test? I've done a compression test on a single cylinder engine with a recoil starter.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-30-2010, 12:18 AM
BleedingGreen BleedingGreen is online now
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SE MI
Posts: 158
I took the valve covers off and didn't find anything floating around. Just a little oil. I looked with a flashlight the best I could and didn't see anything on the top of the heads that looked out of the ordinary. Where is the reed valve located eactly cause I didn't even see anything other than 2 valves, rockers, springs, and 1 tiny little round hole on the bottom right corner of the head (vertical shaft engine) so it looked like this [ .] with the valve cover off.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:10 AM.

Page generated in 0.07673 seconds with 9 queries