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  #11  
Old 09-20-2013, 12:19 AM
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foreplease foreplease is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countryclublawnllc View Post
Is that corn meal "gluten free'?
As pretty good home baker of pizza crusts, breads, cakes, etc. I would say corn meal is gluten-free. Yeast breads will not rise if all or most of the dough is made with cornmeal. Cornmeal mixed with wheat flour may provide an interesting flavor, texture, and crumb but it is better suited for quick breads (uses leavening other other than yeast).

Ha! Initially I misunderstood your question. I thought you had asked if the corn meal was free!
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  #12  
Old 09-20-2013, 12:34 AM
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Snyder's Lawn Inc Snyder's Lawn Inc is offline
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Sign me up on Corn meal deal
Smallaxe I want to hear more treating Brown patch

You cook it in a pot and then spray it or you drink it
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  #13  
Old 09-20-2013, 07:51 PM
CTPTURF CTPTURF is offline
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Originally Posted by ArTurf View Post
What are some indicators that you use to start preventative apps of fungicide for brown patch in St Aug? We've had summer like temps but it will be cooling off into the 50's this weekend with highs in the 80's. I plan on starting apps next week. What is your plan?
The last two seasons, we have incorporated liquid phosphite (0-0-26) into our spray program on the recommendation of our dealer to deal with Brown Patch in St Augustine turf. Last year was a very wet summer season and then by October, the temps dropped but the ground was still saturated. It did not totally control the Brown Patch , but we had a lot less service calls than previous years.

Along with the fungicidal properties of the phosphite, you also benefit from the nutritional aspect of the product.
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  #14  
Old 09-21-2013, 09:42 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snyder's Lawn Inc View Post
Sign me up on Corn meal deal
Smallaxe I want to hear more treating Brown patch

You cook it in a pot and then spray it or you drink it
Another kiril... just like compost makes sense to people who understand SOM, CEC, Structure, percolation and water retention of soil,,, the concept of corn meal makes sense as well...

it is when the mystery of "Fungal Disease" becomes mythologized and people believe in antiseptics which kills the fungi,,, that mock any understanding of microbial health of dirt... the idea of a balanced healthy soil is just foolish,,, RIGHT???
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
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  #15  
Old 09-21-2013, 12:22 PM
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Snyder's Lawn Inc Snyder's Lawn Inc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Another kiril... just like compost makes sense to people who understand SOM, CEC, Structure, percolation and water retention of soil,,, the concept of corn meal makes sense as well...

it is when the mystery of "Fungal Disease" becomes mythologized and people believe in antiseptics which kills the fungi,,, that mock any understanding of microbial health of dirt... the idea of a balanced healthy soil is just foolish,,, RIGHT???
Not mocking I want to hear more about your corn meal
What kind of results you had with corn meal???

Never to young to learn something new
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  #16  
Old 09-21-2013, 11:57 PM
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ted putnam ted putnam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArTurf View Post
I understand the conditions that contribute to brown patch in warm season turf and I control them to the degree possible. Of course it still shows itself.

As always I feel there is more I can learn. Thanks for the info all.
I only deal with a minimal amount of St. Augustine but I have had a few customers who have installed some high dollar zoysia lawns with sod brought in from out of state sod farms growing exotic varieties. I've been told that the sod farms recommend a preventative treatment of fungicide in late March and Late September.
I personally call BS on that. Most fungicides offer about a 21 day window of "protection".

WTF? Am I just supposed to hope that conditions will favor the development of Brown Patch during the 21 day period after I have applied the preventative, their lawn will be protected and there should be no problem after that? Sorry I don't operate that way.

I do my best to "manage" disease issues by educating the customer on proper cultural practices and stressing that they and I are a "team" when it comes to their lawn. They've got to do their best to follow my instructions and at the same time, let me know when something doesn't look right between our scheduled visits.
Foreplease is correct. We have no control over temperature and humidity and sometimes fungicides are necessary...but...I apply fungicides only when necessary...PERIOD

It's better for the environment, It saves me time and it saves the customer money.

As a result of this strategy, my expenditures on fungicides are minimal.
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  #17  
Old 09-22-2013, 02:25 AM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
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Technically, zoysia lawns are supposed to be a hot bed of disease here in Hawaii. It is always humid here and warm at night. However, that has not been the case . The only disease issue I see is dollar spot on the wide bladed Japonica cultivars. That one is my fault. When that happens it is because the lawn is not getting enough N, K and micronutrients during a wet period. Otherwise, no disease issues that are intractable. Lawns that are full of thatch and not maintained at less than 1" rot from the roots up if it is particularly humid or if the customer waters more often than twice a week. I read with great interest of all of the disease problems of zoysia when used in lawns in the Continental US. I am not a Nazi about how a lawn is mowed, watered, or fertilized for nothing. The issue is how to manage diseases and weeds without constant preventative applications of pesticides. It is not about letting people do what they want just because they are paying customers and then spraying the problems away, following everything on the label. That approach is not sustainable. I use the word sustainable carefully. That word, along with the phrase IPM has been misused to mean 100% non chemical. I am talking about using fertilizers/pesticides intelligently and effectively. I expect brown patch and pythium to be rampant if the lawns are kept at over an inch in warm, wet, environments. Then again, In an area where it can rain more in one month, than it does in one year here, I do not want to see zoysia kept thick and shaggy. I would want it mowed low and well fertilized. Reason why is that in low mowed zoysia, dollar spot can become a problem, but mowing it high just to avoid having to fertilize leads to more brown patch.
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  #18  
Old 09-22-2013, 02:36 AM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted putnam View Post
I only deal with a minimal amount of St. Augustine but I have had a few customers who have installed some high dollar zoysia lawns with sod brought in from out of state sod farms growing exotic varieties. I've been told that the sod farms recommend a preventative treatment of fungicide in late March and Late September.
I personally call BS on that. Most fungicides offer about a 21 day window of "protection".

WTF? Am I just supposed to hope that conditions will favor the development of Brown Patch during the 21 day period after I have applied the preventative, their lawn will be protected and there should be no problem after that? Sorry I don't operate that way.

I do my best to "manage" disease issues by educating the customer on proper cultural practices and stressing that they and I are a "team" when it comes to their lawn. They've got to do their best to follow my instructions and at the same time, let me know when something doesn't look right between our scheduled visits.
Foreplease is correct. We have no control over temperature and humidity and sometimes fungicides are necessary...but...I apply fungicides only when necessary...PERIOD

It's better for the environment, It saves me time and it saves the customer money.

As a result of this strategy, my expenditures on fungicides are minimal.
I
Pay
Materials

Ric says that one all the time. I agree with that statement. More so than the interpretation that it is a pesticide and fertilizer ban. There might not be as much brown patch if zoyisa were not kept thick and tall. I remember the conversation I had with one customer who was glad he declined replacing his 1/2 acre of bermuda with zoysia. I told him that putting down zoysia sod would mean that his $1,500 gang reel mower would have to be replaced by a hydraulic drive fairway or greens mower. Replacing a lawn with zoysia is not a big deal on 5,000 sq ft lots. A homeowner grade walk behind reel will handle it. On a big lawn, the mower can cost more than the sod and that says something, given the price of sod here.
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  #19  
Old 09-22-2013, 09:04 AM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
Technically, zoysia lawns are supposed to be a hot bed of disease here in Hawaii. It is always humid here and warm at night. However, that has not been the case .
That has not been the case for you because the supposed info was from someone who didn't know what he was talking about. IT maybe a surprise that there are more then a few folks in this industry who fit that description. Zoysiagrass doesn't have many disease pests in warm weather. Its main concerns in the mainland US are in cool weather, NOT warm weather. Even when you go to Asia, you don't see warm weather problems -- only cool weather problems.

The problem is that any time something goes off color, everyone swears "it got a fungus." You could count important lawn diseases (for the top 12 turf species) on one hand. You wouldn't even need all your fingers to count the number that may require chemical treatment. But, guys on this board think they need to apply fungicides like its going out of style.
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  #20  
Old 09-22-2013, 09:58 AM
ArTurf ArTurf is offline
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For those of you who maintain a lot of St Aug and your conditions favor Brown Patch at certain times of the year (spring & fall in my area) what is your approach to preventing it and treating it. Wait until you start seeing it? (then your a little behind, right?) Of course following proper practices-excessive water, N at wrong time & etc. But if it tends to rear its head despite this what is your approach? I have many lawns with a lot of trees and at times of the year the grass will stay wet with dew or irrigation well into the day, 10 hrs+
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