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  #21  
Old 09-22-2013, 08:55 PM
recycledsole recycledsole is offline
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Thank you for your responses. The sign in the front yard was the builder doing renovation. Its gone by now. I just did a ton of work on the trees and lawn today. its finally getting direct sunlight now! it should be a whole new game now.

To be honest, I have no care whatsoever about what a lawn looks like. If it was my lawn, it would be an orchard. I don't care. I would never use pesticides or herbicides on my own land. In my business I know most people have expectations of a nicer looking lawn. none of my customers are going to get a 'perfect' looking lawn. To me its immoral to pollute the water supply just to have something to look nice without any other purpose. its part of a sickness...
You make a good point blazerwildcats, the only part of my business that I don't like is using fossil fuels and creating emissions. I don't know how else to do it. I cant walk my self to the job and cut with reel mower.. Driving is almost necessary, having things look nice by using toxic chemicals is far from necessary.
anyways, thanks for sharing the info and everyones ideas
God bless you
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  #22  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:52 PM
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BlazersandWildcats2009 BlazersandWildcats2009 is offline
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recycledsole, no problem. And I understand where your coming from the organics. We all have our own views on it. It's certainly and most defiantly not a bad thing. In the end, with an organic lawn I think you have to worry less about diseases, drought, dead areas, etc. Overall, I just didn't see a way for it to be "transformed" over night the organic route. Not to say it isn't the best route, just may not be the fastest route. And we all know the fastest route always isn't the best route. I plan to compost every other application instead of using fertilizer. I've yet to use Herbicides or Insecticides and plan to stay far away from both. The best protection against weeds in a lawn is defiantly not herbicides, but rather a thick grass turf that will crowd out the weeds.

Here's a few shots of mine today from the first mowing on the highest setting.






Funny thing is the Asians across the street asked me to come do theirs today.
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  #23  
Old 09-23-2013, 09:48 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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I've always made the comment that by transforming a lawn to an "Organic Lawn" overnite, and telling the prospective client that it is going to get a lot worse before it gets any better was a self defeating endeavor...
A simple transformation on a "Bridge Program" strategy yields excellent results immediately...

Soil Structure is the first and most important aspect between the Squirt&Fert methods and the Natural sensible methods... Simple modifications of current squirt&fert makes lawns Better in the short term not worse... From there you build the soils in the root zone...

If you're really interested in making strides away from 'cides and such,,, then actually make it a client friendly system, rather than selling them a bunch of bs hype...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #24  
Old 09-23-2013, 11:05 AM
recycledsole recycledsole is offline
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thanks blazers, your lawn does look good. are you going to help your neighbors?

sounds good small axe. I like the idea of not selling ppl stuff they don't need.
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  #25  
Old 09-23-2013, 12:11 PM
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BlazersandWildcats2009 BlazersandWildcats2009 is offline
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That's exactly what I was trying to get through in my messages. I'm far from a professional as a lot of people here are. But I love being outside all day in the lawn, I love gardening (over 50 vegetable plants). And I can tell you from day one when I took lawns into interest I've put countless hours and days into this stuff to learn the most I could when school allowed. I still learn something new everyday from Smallaxe, Agrostics, Riggle, and Dave at Plantscape. All these guys have been a major help. I think I drove my girl crazy because I actually put more time into learning and studying this stuff than I did our own relationship. I know Smallaxe^ above supports organics strongly. But he nailed my post on the money. Organic products are sold my sales people. Their invented by "sales people." I would first do whatever it takes to get my lawn right, then start slowly transforming over to organics over time.

Smallaxe nailed that one on the head. From my research, the main issue with chemicals is not because people are utilizing them for good purposes. The issue is that you call most lawn care services around here with the exception of few, the first thing they have to offer is this chemical and that chemical. That's when and why we have a major issue with chemicals. Speaking of that, I called a guy about herbicide after weeks of planting our lawn. He was quick to come up with a solution and was already ready to apply chemicals for weeds over the phone without even seeing my issue. That's what drove be away from herbicides from the get go. A proper taken care of lawn is going to take care of it's own weed problems. If the grass is thick and healthy, weeds don't stand a chance. You can get weeds from even applying excess amounts of nitrogen and chemicals, that goes back to the reason I said figure out exactly what your soil needs. I know it doesn't sound practical, but it's an important step whether your going full organics or chemicals. If you do your homework, find out what your soil needs, and only what's needed to your soil your giving the environment a major jump start already.

Back to organics, from what I've read if your sticking to organics and your mindset is stuck on that, composting is the best thing you can do to a lawn. But from my understanding, it's most effective if done several times throughout the growing season.

Your going to have to figure out what works and sell that. The same goes for organics. We all know people are happy to put whatever chemicals down as long as they get paid. The same goes for organic products. Everyone's happy to sell you organic, because there's more money by selling just the name "organics." Even when it comes to compost, you have to make sure your getting quality compost, because from my experience a lot of that stuff out thee isn't properly cooked from the get go. It's all about $$ in this industry, there are honest people out there that will give you honest advice rather than worrying about the money their making off of you.
You should do the same. If your going to sell organic services, use Google and Extension office information. Find out what works for your area, your soils, and sell what works best. Don't follow all the "organic" commercials and advertisements.

Appreciate the compliment, I'm going to help them, only problem is I think their more about "saving" money. I'm willing to help them for little to nothing, but not free. Their one of them people that says "I want my lawn to look like yours" but the same people that will ask me to cut their lawn short as possible rather than "proper" cutting height. Lawns isn't my source of income, I'm going to school to design websites for small business owners, hoping to focus in Lawn Care businesses since I know a little of both worlds. But if I work on their yard I'm going to tell them up front, I'm going to do it right from the start. I'm not going to follow what "they want" or I won't do it at all. I'm a perfectionist, hence the reason I asked so many questions before starting my lawn. I don't believe in wasting anyone's money, it's hard to come by these days and I defiantly don't support wasting my time because I don't have enough between our lawn and school.
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  #26  
Old 09-23-2013, 12:23 PM
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BlazersandWildcats2009 BlazersandWildcats2009 is offline
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Also, I forgot to mention and I'm sure he wouldn't mind being such a helpful and honest person. If you look up Dave at "PlantscapeScolutions" on the forum, check out his website and his services he can probably give you a good idea of a successful business. He uses chemicals, but also uses composting and organic materials as part of his services and knows what he's talking about, along with how to sell them. He has an awesome page up about composting lawns with valuable information that makes a customer want to pay for his "composting service."
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  #27  
Old 09-23-2013, 01:26 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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And let's not lose sight of the deal that Job 1, in organics, is Soil Structure... If the organic apps., do nothing for soil structure it is simply a waste of effort...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #28  
Old 09-23-2013, 03:02 PM
GrassForCash GrassForCash is offline
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Fiesta Turf Weed Killer

Fiesta Turf Weed Killer

http://www.enviroselects.com/Fiesta-...ller_p_44.html
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  #29  
Old 09-23-2013, 04:39 PM
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BlazersandWildcats2009 BlazersandWildcats2009 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
And let's not lose sight of the deal that Job 1, in organics, is Soil Structure... If the organic apps., do nothing for soil structure it is simply a waste of effort...
Exactly. I barely have time to keep up with school work much less a pretty lawn. So my times very valuable. Hence the reason I said I wouldn't even waste my time, but obviously the original poster is set in his ways and doesn't like us bothering him by telling him the truth, so all we can do is give him the best advice for his situation, correct? Offer him advice on legit products such as composting that does work rather than letting him be sold by all the "gimmicks."

But I think it's clear and understood in this thread that your not going to get a "perfect" lawn very soon by organics. If he's sold on it, let him go for it. Sometimes lessons taught are the best lessons learned.
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  #30  
Old 09-24-2013, 10:14 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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There is no reason to not expect the perfect lawn using organics... What I'm saying, is that you 'bridge' to organics, making instant improvements now...
There should be No Decline, in the appearance of any lawn during the Transition... True believers that have a religion that doesn't allow a transition is usually suckered into 'gimmicks' like you say...

I hear people just love that Fiesta Stuff... Maybe we could hear how convenient as well as effective it is...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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