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Old 09-13-2013, 08:27 PM
ronwom89 ronwom89 is offline
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Not happy with bad boy outlaw mower

I baught a bad boy zt 50" 27hp mower last year to mow 3 acreas and after up grading the seat to a suspension seat I was pretty happy with it even tho the cut wasn't the best. Last month I started mowing about 5 acreas so I decided to upgrade mowers to a 2013 bad boy outlaw 54" 30hp b&s cyclonic. The mower is built like I tank but with all the weight the briggs motor doesn't have enough hp to effectively mow up hill or thick established lawns. I have talked to the bad boy rep and he had me to take it in to look at it and they found nothing wrong with it other than showing them how it Boggs in any grass that's short but thick. So basically after that he told me to live with it or complain to the dealer and see if hr will do anything. Well personally I think that isn't fair to the dealer. My opinion is that the 1140 pound mower needs way more motor on it.
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:58 PM
Razorblades Razorblades is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronwom89 View Post
I baught a bad boy zt 50" 27hp mower last year to mow 3 acreas and after up grading the seat to a suspension seat I was pretty happy with it even tho the cut wasn't the best. Last month I started mowing about 5 acreas so I decided to upgrade mowers to a 2013 bad boy outlaw 54" 30hp b&s cyclonic. The mower is built like I tank but with all the weight the briggs motor doesn't have enough hp to effectively mow up hill or thick established lawns. I have talked to the bad boy rep and he had me to take it in to look at it and they found nothing wrong with it other than showing them how it Boggs in any grass that's short but thick. So basically after that he told me to live with it or complain to the dealer and see if hr will do anything. Well personally I think that isn't fair to the dealer. My opinion is that the 1140 pound mower needs way more motor on it.
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Did you not have the option of buying an Outlaw with the 31 hp (old Rating) or the 32 hp Vanguard engine. Either of those engines would have been suited to your mowing requirements, being that they are larger displacement engines that have more torque than the Briggs Cyclonic will have.

I would guess that the Briggs Cyclonic 30 HP Engine has close to the same torque as the older 30 hp Kohler that has been used on many commercial ZTs over the years and would probably have as much or more as the older 25 HP Kawasaki's and Kohlers.

So for alot of people that HP range has been acceptable for alot of cutters over the years.

I wouldn't say that is would be Bad Boys fault as a company, I would put that more on the dealer for not reccomending the Right mower combo for your needs or maybe even some of it to you if you didn't let the dealer know what kind of cutting conditions you would be using it in. Will your dealer not consider a trade for an Outlaw with one of the more powerful engine combos?
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Old 09-13-2013, 10:54 PM
ronwom89 ronwom89 is offline
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Originally Posted by Razorblades View Post
Did you not have the option of buying an Outlaw with the 31 hp (old Rating) or the 32 hp Vanguard engine. Either of those engines would have been suited to your mowing requirements, being that they are larger displacement engines that have more torque than the Briggs Cyclonic will have.

I would guess that the Briggs Cyclonic 30 HP Engine has close to the same torque as the older 30 hp Kohler that has been used on many commercial ZTs over the years and would probably have as much or more as the older 25 HP Kawasaki's and Kohlers.

So for alot of people that HP range has been acceptable for alot of cutters over the years.

I wouldn't say that is would be Bad Boys fault as a company, I would put that more on the dealer for not reccomending the Right mower combo for your needs or maybe even some of it to you if you didn't let the dealer know what kind of cutting conditions you would be using it in. Will your dealer not consider a trade for an Outlaw with one of the more powerful engine combos?
When I purchased that dealer was the only one in a 2 hour drive range that had a 54" outlaw. Every thing I read up on and the dealers said the 30hp cyclonic was a good motor. And I figured since the 27hp briggs that was on my zt was a power house it would be fine. But then again the outlaw is twice as heavy so it has a lot more load to pull. Yeah I am not really trying to say its a junk mower but just not what I expected from a $7000 mower. I really expected it to out cut the zt that I had and at the moment it's not. After emailing every one at bad boy they are going to send the rep out so he can see what it's doing. Hopefully we can come up with a solution.
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Old 09-14-2013, 02:07 AM
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MJB MJB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronwom89 View Post
When I purchased that dealer was the only one in a 2 hour drive range that had a 54" outlaw. Every thing I read up on and the dealers said the 30hp cyclonic was a good motor. And I figured since the 27hp briggs that was on my zt was a power house it would be fine. But then again the outlaw is twice as heavy so it has a lot more load to pull. Yeah I am not really trying to say its a junk mower but just not what I expected from a $7000 mower. I really expected it to out cut the zt that I had and at the moment it's not. After emailing every one at bad boy they are going to send the rep out so he can see what it's doing. Hopefully we can come up with a solution.
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Thats hard to believe its not enough power, how fast are you going when it bogs down in thick grass? I demoed that machine with a 61" and never noticed a problem. The rep will be your best bet for a solution. The outlaw deck is so much better than the ZT too, hard to believe the problems your having.
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Old 09-14-2013, 07:44 AM
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Sprinkler Buddy Sprinkler Buddy is offline
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"Thats hard to believe it's not enough power"

That's what I was thinking. I run 60" Hustler's with 30hp Kohler's. Never an issue and they have many hrs on them. Wonder if its not the motor but some other components causing this problem. Hp is Hp I would think.
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Old 09-14-2013, 08:02 AM
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Charles Charles is online now
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I had a 8 hp Vanguard C/I engine on my leaf bagger that was amazingly powerful. I had trouble just keeping it from blowing leaves out the back door. Bagged heavy wet leaves with ease. The dust did it in. Then I got another 8 hp and then a 11 hp(different brands). Nothing would come close to the power of the Vanguard. I should have paid the extra money for another VG and saved myself a lot of aggravation. I would say there can be a big difference in the stated hp and the power going to the PTO
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Old 09-14-2013, 08:54 AM
ronwom89 ronwom89 is offline
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Yeah that's why I figure 30hp would be enough. I have been mowing about half speed so about 7mph. Pulleys and clutch all checked out good and motor sounds real good and mowes the thin stuff with out a problem. Just in the thicker grass it seems like the motor luggs down alot more than the other mowers I have used.

Last edited by ronwom89; 09-14-2013 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 09-14-2013, 10:37 AM
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Snyder's Lawn Inc Snyder's Lawn Inc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronwom89 View Post
Yeah that's why I figure 30hp would be enough. I have been mowing about half speed so about 7mph. Pulleys and clutch all checked out good and motor sounds real good and mowes the thin stuff with out a problem. Just in the thicker grass it seems like the motor luggs down alot more than the other mowers I have used.
Does the mower have a tiny tach on it, to see if its holding high rpms with blades on sitting still?
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:53 PM
ronwom89 ronwom89 is offline
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Does the mower have a tiny tach on it, to see if its holding high rpms with blades on sitting still?
After warmed up I with blades off highest rpm is 3630. With blades on not moving highest rpm is 3450. When mowing half speed in not thick grass it stays around 3300-3400 when you get into the thicker established grass it jumps down to 3000-3100. And it just sounds like the motor is working hard. And that is at about 7 mph half speed if you try to go faster it leaves a bad cut when the rpms drop that low.
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Old 09-14-2013, 02:33 PM
Ridin' Green Ridin' Green is offline
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According to Kohler's site, the Command 30 HP is actually a 26 HP engine under the new and much more accurate rating system. that's one thing that may be affecting it (though it shouldn't really with that size deck). Go into the link at the bottom here, and then into the specs chart at the right of the headings. Then look at the bottom of the list where the new ratings are found.

Try adjusting the RPM's to 3700 off load, which should give you around 3600 under load. The last couple hundred RPM's up to max recommended by the manu is right where many gas engines make and keep up their best power.


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