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  #21  
Old 10-05-2013, 07:18 PM
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DanaMac DanaMac is online now
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Older systems here were done in PVC and there is still the occasional one. Most systems here are now poly, and most companies will use poly for a mainline, if they do a mainline. And they rarely use a MV, and rarely is there a problem. The only time there is an issue is when the pressure regulator fails in the house, and pressure then spikes to 125-150. Then we will see the occasional blow out in EITHER poly or PVC if the main was done in Class 200.

Not all pipes will crack from freezing. I have many customers that do not blow out their systems, and some have damage and some do not. When winterizing a system, my main concern is backflow preventer, manifolds, mainlines, and valves. Or if the system is all PVC or copper (yes we have some older systems that are all copper). The occasional split poly pipe or head is no big deal. It's the 20'-60' of shattered PVC that chaps my azz.
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  #22  
Old 10-05-2013, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbell36 View Post
which brings up another point...systems aren't designed to operate on 117 psi...even the master valve would get worn out pre maturely, which is basically what you are saying

it would be best to have a pressure regulator at the very beginning of the system, therefore nothing gets worn out more than the other components, which is back to my main point, the best way to install a system using PVC or poly

i think the additional cost of properly installing a good system as opposed to a cut corner/cheaper system is minimal, especially in the long run...

i'm starting to lean towards poly, as a whole...i just figured i would bring it up to see what most of the main guys on here, who have a lot of experience, prefer installing...the help has been greatly appreciated
Systems components like heads and lateral lines don't ever get exposed to full static pressure, especially with a basement water meter fed from a pressure-robbing house supply line. The deal about valves and high pressure was more an issue for an old-school Richdel R204 valve, with an unsupported flat diaphragm.

What brand(s) of poly pipe can you get?
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  #23  
Old 10-05-2013, 08:08 PM
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gusbuster gusbuster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchgo View Post
I went to our local Ewing and asked if they sold blazzing saddles. The guy didn't know what they were .. So I found them in HIS store. He's like .. I've been here for 3 years and have never seen this sold.
30 plus years of installing residential systems and only came across a 1 system where it was used and of course, I didn't have parts. I had to go to Orchard Supply Hardware to get an insert to repair the pipe. Its PVC here west of the rockies.
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  #24  
Old 10-05-2013, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gusbuster View Post
30 plus years of installing residential systems and only came across a 1 system where it was used and of course, I didn't have parts. I had to go to Orchard Supply Hardware to get an insert to repair the pipe. Its PVC here west of the rockies.
I saw a brand spanking new poly system installed a few years ago in the great state of Jefferson. First I had seen here but sure enough, it was poly.
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  #25  
Old 10-05-2013, 09:38 PM
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greenmonster304 greenmonster304 is offline
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First of all http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjoMQ...e_gdata_player

Second of all, I can see the advantage of PVC on bigger pipe but there is something to be said about being able to make a repair on poly main line with insert fittings and clamps and being able to put it right back into service without waiting or glue to dry.
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  #26  
Old 10-06-2013, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchgo View Post
We pull 200 / 250 psi Poly Mains .. Typically 1" and bump it to 1.25" when needed.

PVC Manifolds

100 psi 1" laterals
Same pipe you replace home supply lines with?

It's an intriguing choice. The poly home supply lines I see are always CTS (OD specified) poly with waterworks compression fittings, and never IPS poly with clamped insert fittings. Upstream of the meter, it's entirely the purveyors' call on what gets used to connect the supply tubing.

Have you ever checked with the vendor on what they recommend for connecting the 200/250 psi poly? I do believe the poly can reach a thickness and density/hardness where a worm gear clamp will not exert sufficient force to match the strength of the poly. Only a few of the Ideal brand clamps (marine-grade and Lox-On) claimed agency approval for use on the then-thickest poly (160 psi medium-density)
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  #27  
Old 10-06-2013, 09:07 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1idejim View Post
I saw a brand spanking new poly system installed a few years ago in the great state of Jefferson. First I had seen here but sure enough, it was poly.
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I've seen a few poly systems, but they are few and far between.
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  #28  
Old 10-06-2013, 09:16 AM
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You can sell a poly-system as earthquake-resistant
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  #29  
Old 10-06-2013, 09:49 AM
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grassman177 grassman177 is offline
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Basically,i hate poly. Won't use it. But to consider any system without a master valve is bad design,poly or pvc is not s determining factor on that....it's not even a question to have or not.

That being said I work on several that are totally poly, and I noticed on the mainline side there are not one, not two, but three house clamps on every fitting. Something worthy to note
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbell36 View Post
my point exactly...even the mainlines, all poly?

i've spoken with a contractor in the NorthEast specifically about an all poly system (main and lateral lines) and he seems to be a great contractor, but obviously i have never actually seen his systems...he said he has never had a problem...obviously all systems in a freezing climate get blown out before a freeze, so not a freezing issue here...only issue would be a main line being able to hold the pressure (so a master valve is necessary)...the other option is to install a pressure regulator on a poly system to make sure it doesn't exceed 75 psi...

just to clarify, there is NO system that is supposed to operate exceeding 75 psi on a 1" residential, poly OR pvc...heads are the main concern

around here, i have seen 40 psi on the East side of town, all the way to 117 psi on the central to West side of town
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  #30  
Old 10-06-2013, 09:57 AM
djagusch djagusch is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grassman177 View Post
Basically,i hate poly. Won't use it. But to consider any system without a master valve is bad design,poly or pvc is not s determining factor on that....it's not even a question to have or not.

That being said I work on several that are totally poly, and I noticed on the mainline side there are not one, not two, but three house clamps on every fitting. Something worthy to note
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Main line 3 pinch clamps, zone line 2 pinch clamps that is what we do.
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