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  #31  
Old 10-06-2013, 09:58 AM
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1idejim 1idejim is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
I've seen a few poly systems, but they are few and far between.
You prolly see twice what I see Chief
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  #32  
Old 10-06-2013, 10:05 AM
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greenmonster304 greenmonster304 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grassman177 View Post
Basically,i hate poly. Won't use it. But to consider any system without a master valve is bad design,poly or pvc is not s determining factor on that....it's not even a question to have or not.

That being said I work on several that are totally poly, and I noticed on the mainline side there are not one, not two, but three house clamps on every fitting. Something worthy to note
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Poly or PVC argument aside, why do you say it is bad design not to have a master valve? Do you never have hose bibs on your systems?
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  #33  
Old 10-06-2013, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grassman177 View Post
.........That being said I work on several that are totally poly, and I noticed on the mainline side there are not one, not two, but three house clamps on every fitting. Something worthy to note
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The original form of insert fittings would not allow this practice, being that they would have four barbs at the end, and the rest of the insert un-barbed. Standard practice would require only a single (worm-gear, back then) clamp over the barbs on one-inch or smaller. On inch-and-a-half or larger, it was one clamp over the barbs, and one clamp over the smooth 'shoulder' of the insert. Two worm-gear clamps over the barbs was not physically possible.

In terms of preventing the poly from pulling off a fitting, I think the old version is superior, but for residential work with one inch, it doesn't matter. One Oetiker crimp clamp is sufficient, but just for insurance sake, an extra clamp on mainlines, and at zone valves, never hurt anybody.
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  #34  
Old 10-06-2013, 12:28 PM
jbell36 jbell36 is offline
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another reason i love poly, is it's ready right away...you can easily pull a 300' line with one roll, you don't have to keep gluing pipes together as you go and wait for it to dry...also, not as many glue joints, less connections to fail...very flexible, easier to maneuver

i was taught to always use 2 clamps, very minimal cost...3 isn't a bad idea, especially on main lines

the master valve thing is debatable...when i first started installs, a master valve was a must for me...but someone brought up a good point, let's say there is a smaller leak, you may never find it with a master valve, so is it really saving you anything?....i actually would like to hear from others on the subject, do you guys always use master valves?
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  #35  
Old 10-06-2013, 01:09 PM
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I've seen a lot of master valve usage to compensate for crappy zone valves.
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  #36  
Old 10-07-2013, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmonster304 View Post
Poly or PVC argument aside, why do you say it is bad design not to have a master valve? Do you never have hose bibs on your systems?
first I was taught that, plus it helps save water if there is a leak, or break or anything downline. I know I myself have been saved, I had a super large tree limb fall in my lawn, and broke the mainline at a valve, which would have leaked for hours if not for my mastervalve. reason enough right there
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  #37  
Old 10-07-2013, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbell36 View Post
another reason i love poly, is it's ready right away...you can easily pull a 300' line with one roll, you don't have to keep gluing pipes together as you go and wait for it to dry...also, not as many glue joints, less connections to fail...very flexible, easier to maneuver

i was taught to always use 2 clamps, very minimal cost...3 isn't a bad idea, especially on main lines

the master valve thing is debatable...when i first started installs, a master valve was a must for me...but someone brought up a good point, let's say there is a smaller leak, you may never find it with a master valve, so is it really saving you anything?....i actually would like to hear from others on the subject, do you guys always use master valves?
I can understand what you say here, verymuch. however, I would not consider not using a master just cuz it might make a smaller leak harder to find. that doesn't even make sense to me. however, I can see what you are saying and it can be true, I just fixed a leaking valve I may not have seen due to it does not have a master valve on this system.
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  #38  
Old 10-07-2013, 10:29 AM
Stillwater Stillwater is offline
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Saying a poly system without a master is a bad design is like saying spam spam spam bacon and spam has more spam than spam spam spam spam eggs and spam....
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  #39  
Old 10-07-2013, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Stillwater View Post
Saying a poly system without a master is a bad design is like saying spam spam spam bacon and spam has more spam than spam spam spam spam eggs and spam....
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You need to learn to count, my friend.

Doesn't take 2 eyes to see that SSSB&S is a spam shy of SSSSE&S.

You're 1 spam short of a breakfast.

I feel that if one installs MVs for leak protection it's one thing but installing a MV to mask a leak is entirely another. The water loss and damage that occurs from years of concealed loss may be far greater than the loss due to breakage. I like MVs but think that they should be activated and meter monitored a couple times a year.
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  #40  
Old 10-07-2013, 01:55 PM
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What about that California cliff-top home that was done in by a constant irrigation system leak undermining the foundation? Solid motivation to include a master valve.
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