Register free!

The Green Industry's Resource Center



Reply
 
Thread Tools   Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-19-2013, 07:14 PM
ksss's Avatar
ksss ksss is online now
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rigby, Idaho
Posts: 6,977
Skid Steer operating costs

Here is an interesting article on operating expenses and depreciation.

http://www.equipmentworld.com/3-rule..._id=ddd70cbcf9
__________________
See us at www.kaiserskidsteer.com

Proudly running CASE and Takeuchi equipment.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-19-2013, 09:14 PM
YellowDogSVC's Avatar
YellowDogSVC YellowDogSVC is offline
LawnSite Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 3,550
read the article. I used to follow the "sell it if it's not working" rule. I'm considering selling my big chipper and just running the mulcher and subbing chipping since mulching seems to be the in thing right now. Tough to let go of tools, though.
Luckily I'm a low paid laborer and that helps keep my skid steer operating costs down!
__________________

"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid."

Twitter @Cedar_Clearing
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-19-2013, 10:22 PM
Cornell Cornell is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 515
Interesting. The T770 I use primarily hit 1100 hours and I've had it 3 years and it's getting traded in on a new one as soon as the one we ordered shows up. The boulders are hard on equipment and it needs new pins and bushings on the Bob-Tach and tilt cylinders and the tracks will probably have another 500 hours in them on the low side I estimate... even so... between the bushings/pins/tracks and other things we'd rather have a new machine with a new warranty even though I take really good care of it. Very rarely do we bill out a machine by the hour.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-19-2013, 10:51 PM
ksss's Avatar
ksss ksss is online now
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rigby, Idaho
Posts: 6,977
This my take on the article. I try hard to refine my operating habits and insist on common sense operating habits from employees. I think there is something to purchasing machines that are comfortable to run. The new pressurized cabs, EH controls, refined hydraulics and so forth do add up to more productivity. If you have employees that operate smart. The numbers they came up with are interesting. I had nearly the identical machine and got another 6K for mine than the one they used in the example, but when you see that it costs $60 an hour to run a CASE 440 (my numbers are closer to $45) makes you wonder about the guys running around for $50 an hour. I charge $90 an hour for my 465 and $95 for my TR320, and while I don't do much by the hour, when I bid I figure the number of hours the job will take and use my hourly number. Which I think is pretty standard, somewhere in the process an hourly number has to come into play.

As to equipment that is sitting, Yea I have some things that have not made the money I thought they would. The question is to double down, or pull the plug on them (laser grader attachment for one).
__________________
See us at www.kaiserskidsteer.com

Proudly running CASE and Takeuchi equipment.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-19-2013, 11:23 PM
Cornell Cornell is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 515
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksss View Post
This my take on the article. I try hard to refine my operating habits and insist on common sense operating habits from employees. I think there is something to purchasing machines that are comfortable to run. The new pressurized cabs, EH controls, refined hydraulics and so forth do add up to more productivity. If you have employees that operate smart. The numbers they came up with are interesting. I had nearly the identical machine and got another 6K for mine than the one they used in the example, but when you see that it costs $60 an hour to run a CASE 440 (my numbers are closer to $45) makes you wonder about the guys running around for $50 an hour. I charge $90 an hour for my 465 and $95 for my TR320, and while I don't do much by the hour, when I bid I figure the number of hours the job will take and use my hourly number. Which I think is pretty standard, somewhere in the process an hourly number has to come into play.

As to equipment that is sitting, Yea I have some things that have not made the money I thought they would. The question is to double down, or pull the plug on them (laser grader attachment for one).
Loaded machines are a lot nicer to run. Any time I have to use our spare (450CT) I dread having to get into that thing. So loud, clunky, etc. It's a powerhouse though. The radial lift arms have something to do with that.

All of our guys (3-4 of us) that run a CTL/Excavator regularly know to not have wasted moves or do things that are hard on tracks or the machines unless we have no other choice. Never deliberate. Especially with loading trucks with a CTL.

Our CX75sr will sit for a month or more at a time but then we will use it for a month again. That thing has paid for itself many times over so even if it sits it's worth it to keep around without even thinking twice.

Only time we think of using hourly numbers is to load out thousands of yards of fill with an excavator, demos, or digging a basement and backfilling later. Retaining walls I can look at a cut/size/sq ft of a wall and give an estimate VERY close to what it will take. Even then I usually finish early unless we have multiple rain days or terrible site conditions where material can't be brought in.

Can remember the days when I thought a good day was averaging 200 sq ft a day in the CX75. We built a 3950 sq ft wall in 5 days start to finish and over the past 3 weeks have installed 7400 sq ft.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-20-2013, 12:21 AM
ksss's Avatar
ksss ksss is online now
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rigby, Idaho
Posts: 6,977
Yea I feel the same about my 465. I remember when I loved running that machine. However going from the TR320 to the 465 is tough. Tough enough that I want to trade the 465 for an SV300. The 465 is very reliable, especially for what I do with it (running mulcher, breaker), but I simply like being comfortable and its not near as comfortable as is the Alpha machine. On paper there is no reason to trade the 465, and if I was an owner that never ran a machine, I would not even think about trading it, but I am not.

I think there is a difference between machines that have earned their keep, and don't owe you anything, and machines or attachments that have not and are sitting on the books as a liability. Maybe that is Just in my head, but to me there is a difference.

When you estimate a price for a wall by the sf, I would guess the price breaks down to the amount of sf you can do per day on a given job. So at some point does the cost reflect an amount per hour for your machines? I realize that you have enough experience now that you know where you need to be on a sf basis, but it seems to me that in order to get to a sf number you have to know what your hourly costs are. Did your productivity increase enough to cover the added cost of the 180 or did you increase your sf price to cover the new iron?
__________________
See us at www.kaiserskidsteer.com

Proudly running CASE and Takeuchi equipment.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-20-2013, 07:55 AM
AWJ Services AWJ Services is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ga
Posts: 4,261
I took a class a few years back on operating expenses for septic pumpers and when the guy actually broke the numbers down it made it near impossible too have a succesful buisness (finacially) and actually get work. That article makes me feel the same way about owning a skid steer.LOL

I definatly have never billed it out per hour and I remember posts 3 or 4 years ago on here of where people said you just could not get more than 65 an hour for a skid.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-20-2013, 11:23 AM
KTM KTM is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 475
A skid loader around here is getting to just be a luxury, toy, write off or a needed addition to bigger equipment. Seams like everyone has one, and people think they're making money at $50-60 a hour. I can make that amount or more with my pick up truck and hand tools.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-20-2013, 01:23 PM
YellowDogSVC's Avatar
YellowDogSVC YellowDogSVC is offline
LawnSite Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 3,550
Quote:
Originally Posted by AWJ Services View Post
I took a class a few years back on operating expenses for septic pumpers and when the guy actually broke the numbers down it made it near impossible too have a succesful buisness (finacially) and actually get work. That article makes me feel the same way about owning a skid steer.LOL

I definatly have never billed it out per hour and I remember posts 3 or 4 years ago on here of where people said you just could not get more than 65 an hour for a skid.
I guess it just depends on what you are doing with the skid steer. You have the standard skid and then you have a true tool carrier which is what I consider my skid steer.
It is hard convincing customers to pay $90/hr when guys are offering $50/hr on craigslist. What is frustrating is trying to explain what they are getting for $50/hr. For example, a guy with a 46 hp machine, worn out bucket and bald tires may offer $50/hr. When I'm hired, they get a machine that probably wont' break down, is twice the power, and comes with an aresenal of tools, if needed. I also figure in my insurance and workman's comp in that price and though I rarely work by the hour, I have a daily price that includes delivery and all of the above. If the customer is looking for high productivity, i have a rate schedule for high flow attachments that cover my costs per hour that keep the machine running.
It is hard to expense things. Some guys have a good hold on tire replacement, I do not. My severe duty tires go anywhere from 1100-1500 or more hours but I've worn them out in 1000 hours so it's not easy. Working with trees makes things tough, too. I tear up a lot of hoses and parts that get broken off. Just replaced a grapple time that cost $190 last week because it shear off. Those extra costs make it tough to figure out operating costs because I have a lot of unexpected things.. especially hoses and fittings that really change the operating costs.
__________________

"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid."

Twitter @Cedar_Clearing
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-20-2013, 02:52 PM
Cornell Cornell is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 515
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksss View Post
Yea I feel the same about my 465. I remember when I loved running that machine. However going from the TR320 to the 465 is tough. Tough enough that I want to trade the 465 for an SV300. The 465 is very reliable, especially for what I do with it (running mulcher, breaker), but I simply like being comfortable and its not near as comfortable as is the Alpha machine. On paper there is no reason to trade the 465, and if I was an owner that never ran a machine, I would not even think about trading it, but I am not.

I think there is a difference between machines that have earned their keep, and don't owe you anything, and machines or attachments that have not and are sitting on the books as a liability. Maybe that is Just in my head, but to me there is a difference.

When you estimate a price for a wall by the sf, I would guess the price breaks down to the amount of sf you can do per day on a given job. So at some point does the cost reflect an amount per hour for your machines? I realize that you have enough experience now that you know where you need to be on a sf basis, but it seems to me that in order to get to a sf number you have to know what your hourly costs are. Did your productivity increase enough to cover the added cost of the 180 or did you increase your sf price to cover the new iron?
As long as I keep relatively busy the 180 covers itself without a price increase. 4 years ago we actually dropped our price 10% to be competitive. We have found other ways to make up for it. Sq ft price is never the same though. We have the 160 and 180... looking into a 235LCR with an 84" Towtem for next year but can't justify it just yet and will trade the 160 in on it We have picked up a few custom home builder contracts where the price is fixed but there are exclusions. It's easier that way to be a call away and not have to worry about bidding if you are a preferred sub. Just part of it is weighing the upcoming year
Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:36 PM.

Page generated in 0.07600 seconds with 7 queries