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Old 06-30-2014, 07:14 AM
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Total Earthworks Total Earthworks is offline
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Time to buy a new CTL Advice and opinions sought

Hi all.

Well I am about to change over my Takeuchi TL130 which has served me well and am looking for a new CTL. It has come down to the following short list.

The majority of my work is done with a harley rake or tilting 4in1 bucket. The country here is pretty rocky and steep in places so ASV are off the shopping list. A Cat 259D costs over $100 000 here so they are off the list too.

The new machine will join my new Bobcat E50 so the ability to share attachments such as augers is a plus.

Takeuchi TL8 - first ones will be in Australia in the next couple of weeks. My Taki has been great but it does throw the occasional track and the hydraulics are pushed running a harley rake in heavy ground or on hills. Whilst the TL130 is built like a tank and pushes like a dozer, my local dealers have closed shop, so back up on a new machine may be difficult.

Kubota SVL75 - Looks like a good, well built machine, however have heard some stories about lift arm issues

Bobcat T650 SJC - Like the look of the machine, good dealer back up locally, much better hydraulic flow than the others and according to their videos they use there oil better i.e don't rob the drive to power the aux's, however am worried about the reliability of the electronics. Also looking at the figures the pushing force of the bobcat seems to be much lower than the other two machines

Has anyone here any experience with the 3 shortlisted machines, I would really appreciate any info or advice that anyone may have on known issues, problems, reliability with these machines.

Basically this is a part time business for me so I spend my weekend on my machines and in an office during the week. Looking for a good, reliable and comfortable machine which will give me good service.

Your assistance is greatly appreciated
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Old 06-30-2014, 12:24 PM
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AEL AEL is offline
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That is crazy for a cat 259! I'd hate to see how much a cat 336e would go for there! How much is a comparative machine to the 259?
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Old 06-30-2014, 07:18 PM
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bobcat_ron bobcat_ron is offline
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I'd say go for the Kubota. The only thing that really bugged me about Takeuchi's was their short track length, once they start to push, they drop like a stone in water in the soft stuff.
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Old 06-30-2014, 07:35 PM
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alldayrj alldayrj is online now
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I just rented a tak 130, and got approved to demo a tl8, so as soon as i use it i will be sure to report back. One big difference between the tak kubota and bobcat is the slide up door. To me its the only way to go
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Old 06-30-2014, 07:37 PM
whiffyspark whiffyspark is offline
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Bobcat or bota. The only issues I've seen with the arms is from people running mulchers. The debris get stuck in the pocket

I've ran all the bobcats always been happy in them. Even the little t110 lol.
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Old 06-30-2014, 08:26 PM
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Nelson M Martin Nelson M Martin is offline
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your choice but...
I have owned 5 Bobcat machines and so far nothing to complain for reliability

machine #1= T300 with 1150 hrs
machine #2= T320 with 1785 hrs
machine #3= T320 with 650 hrs
machine #4= T770 with 780 hrs
current = T770 with 1880 hrs and running strong
electronics have not given any issues for reliablility
But have had to change few actuator motors on tilt and lift hydraulic valves
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Old 06-30-2014, 11:06 PM
Stick Pro Stick Pro is offline
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I would go to a different cat dealer, and find a cheaper 259. Our 299 was not even that close to 100,000
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Old 07-01-2014, 12:03 AM
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AEL AEL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick Pro View Post
I would go to a different cat dealer, and find a cheaper 259. Our 299 was not even that close to 100,000
Keep in mind his location...
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Old 07-01-2014, 06:00 AM
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Total Earthworks Total Earthworks is offline
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Thanks everyone for your input. Unfortunately here in Australia we are bled dry in terms of machine prices.
As mentioned
Cat 259D's start at around $100 000
Takeuchi TL8's at around $80 000
Kubota SVL75 at around $70 000 and
Bobcat T650 at around $85 000

All are A/C machines, no high flow and pretty well standard spec. The market is such that Ritchie Bros auctions now are shipping in new and unused cat gear and selling it through their auctions here. In fact I can buy a near new Bobcat T770 from the states and ship it here, for less than a new T650 will cost me locally.

As for Cat, there is one dealer so not a lot of choice.

I have in the past bought my machines overseas and shipped them in due to the cost, both my current Takeuchi and Bobcat Excavator were bought in the uk and shipped into Aus for about 60% of the Australian dealer price.

A Cat 336E would be well over $400 000 grand here and probably edging close to $500 000

As mentioned one of the strong points for me is the roll up door on the Takie and Kubota, using harley rake a lot of the time I tend to work with the cab open, which is great in good weather and makes fine precision work a lot easier. The standard door is a big negative for me in respect to the Bobcat.

I think I am leaning towards the Bobcat at the moment, the strong points to me appear to be
Great service access,
Longer and wider tracks than the Takie
The cooling system (where is sources and uses is cooling air) seems to be better and I think will reduce the amount of fine dust which settles in the tub of the machine
Better lift capacity
much higher hydraulic flow rate which should make driving the rake a lot easier
Good parts and support network locally
and I can still get a Kubota powered unit here

Negatives are the Bobcat conventional door
Higher price than the other two units and stories you read about bent loader arms and broken bobcats. However I am mindfully that these are probably in respect to older machines and that Bobcat have produced such large numbers of CTLs and Skid Steers that a sheer fact of numbers means that the probability of bad stories is much higher

And undecided points are the reliability of all the electronics weighted against the benefit of quick diagnostics and machine monitoring. Also looking at the figures their tractive force figures appear to be well down on some of the competition like Kubota.

The Takkie,
Well good points are
strength
pushing power, (when not multi functioning)
simple and reliable

bad points
price,
detracks on steep cross slopes
can only get T4 engines with all the pollution crap on them

And Kubota

Good
Appear to be well made
appear to be pretty strong
roll up door
Price
Appear to have good push power

Bad
Kubota parts are a bit pricey here
Serviceability access is not great

Unknown
How well they multi function


I have had a close look at the Cats but don't like the look of the new D Series lift arms (they just look weak to me) and the cabs are difficult to get into with pretty limited visibility.

At this point in time I think probably the Bobcat and Kubota are the two fore runners. Unfortunately here it is hard to get demo machines out of dealers, they just don't have them. In fact one dealer suggested I get in touch with a neighbour of mine (who is also a contractor and competitor) and organise myself a test drive on his new machine...... then come back to him and buy a machine from him....

Really appreciate all your assistance and feed back in respect to these machines.
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  #10  
Old 07-01-2014, 08:27 AM
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YellowDogSVC YellowDogSVC is online now
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I'm not sure why a standard Bobcat door would be a problem? It seals good and visibility is excellent to the cutting edge of a bucket or something like a rake plus it keeps you pretty clean. The cabs are sealed up good and with a little bit of extra effort, you can make them seal up to where almost nothing gets in.

I've owned all Bobcat and one CAT over the last 17 years. Out of 13 or 14 machines, I've had 4 or 5 with all hand controls. So far, no problems and being able to dial in speed and use a foot throttle is a big plus in my opinion.

Can't speak on CTL pushing power but Bobcat isn't weak in the 650-700 series.
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