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Old 12-12-2013, 05:01 PM
zwhit81 zwhit81 is offline
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Hustler ZTR (what do you think?)

I am looking at buying a new 60" ZTR. I currently use a Ferris 1500 48" and I would be keeping the current Ferris and running two mowers next season. I am looking at mowing 35-40 accounts per week next year. I would be putting about 12hrs on each ZTR per week. I am currently looking at 3 mowers and would like input from anyone who uses one of these:

Hustler FASTTRAK Super Duty
Hustler X-ONEi
Huster XONE
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2013, 06:27 PM
Schrock Lawns's Avatar
Schrock Lawns Schrock Lawns is offline
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None of those hustler super z hd all the way
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:17 PM
ducnut ducnut is online now
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There are several on here running the X-ONE. You can cross-shop to other mower companies and will find they're the spec-equivalent to other highly touted mowers. I'd highly recommend the Kohler EFI. Once you try one, you won't run anything else. It's a great engine. The ride, with Flex-Forks is pretty remarkable.

The X-ONEi is an integrated pump and drive system. I don't like these setups as they carry all the heat of both components in one case. I believe them to run those components at a much higher temperature than separate systems, which is probably why this type of drive is speed limited (~7-8mph). If you run the mower under heavy conditions, I feel like those components will fail much sooner. If you look at the Super Z HD, you'll see the drive system is made up of separate components, plus and a fan-cooled heat exchanger (~16mph machine). This alludes to what you want to look toward in any machine. The integrated systems are what you find in homeowner machines.

I wouldn't even consider the FasTrak SD. That's a homeowner model. It has much smaller tires, integrated drives, lighter build. It will ride like a homeowner machine, too. I think you'd quickly tire of getting beat up by it.

You may not care about ground speed. However, if you buy a ~7-8mph machine and you regularly run it at that speed, you're running the drives at their limit. If you buy a ~11mph machine and run it at ~7-8mph, you're not taxing the drives or building heat in them like you would running the drives at their max capability. I think it's a good idea to buy a bit more machine than you ultimately need and run it less hard. I feel like you'll get more longevity out of your equipment that way.

As your business picks up, you'll be thankful you bought a nicer, bigger machine. I looked at most of the Hustler line (and others), but, the X-ONE was the commercial machine that made the most sense, spec versus dollars spent.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:45 PM
Ridin' Green Ridin' Green is offline
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There's a lot of misinformation in this post ^^^^^^^

Companies have been running the integrated units for quite a few years now, and they are holding up as well as, or better than the separated units do. Many of the machines out that run integrated units are capable of the same, or higher speeds than the SZ can do. There are far less leak points and ways for dirt to get into integrated units. Most top of the line units from any brand these days run integrated units, and most do from 11 -13 mph.


OP- of the ones you have listed, the X-One would be my first pick hands down.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:42 PM
MRCo. MRCo. is online now
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"Misinformation" is a bit strong. He has opinions based on logic he explains, you just see it differently based on your logic. I think both posts have merit.

I would skip the Fastrak for either X1.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:54 PM
Ridin' Green Ridin' Green is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRCo. View Post
"Misinformation" is a bit strong. He has opinions based on logic he explains, you just see it differently based on your logic. I think both posts have merit.

I would skip the Fastrak for either X1.
No, that's not based on my logic. It's based on facts/results reported here by by several servicing dealers that are also members of this board, some of which mow as well as sell, as well as info provided elsewhere on the net, you tube etc, and from several local dealers that sell both types of systems.

It wasn't meant to be mean or harsh. Also, the speed issue isn't my opinion either. That is also fact.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:00 PM
ducnut ducnut is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridin' Green View Post
Companies have been running the integrated units for quite a few years now, and they are holding up as well as, or better than the separated units do.
That's not true at all. Maybe, in your case.

Having spoken to a Hydro Gear engineer and two dealers about integrated drives in general, I'll stick to my earlier statement. They've seen a lot more issues than I'd ever encounter in a lifetime. I don't want a drive design rooted in the homeowner segment. My 42" has integrated drives and has had problems related to heat and usage. My dealer strongly recommended staying away from them, for commercial usage. Maybe, the Parker drives are better, I don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridin' Green View Post
Many of the machines out that run integrated units are capable of the same, or higher speeds than the SZ can do. There are far less leak points and ways for dirt to get into integrated units. Most top of the line units from any brand these days run integrated units, and most do from 11 -13 mph..
Depends on whose brand of drives and tire diameter. For the integrated Hustlers, they are limited to ~9mph on the X-ONEi. I mis-spoke, overall, though. You're correct on other brands of integrated drives having a higher speed than I posted. I was thinking about the Hustler FasTrak SD and other small-tired mowers, when I wrote that.

The leak point argument is almost verbatim from the marketers brochures. My dealer has been a LCO, since '77. He doesn't have nor see the supposed leak issues and has plenty of his old stuff sitting around to look at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridin' Green View Post
OP- of the ones you have listed, the X-One would be my first pick hands down.
Why not the X-ONEi, as it has the intergrated drives you're a fan of?
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'13 Hustler X-ONE, 60", Kohler ECV749 EFI
'05 Hustler FasTrak, 42", Honda GXV530
'13 Toro Timemaster 30"
'02 Lawn Boy SilverPro 21"
Stihl BR600 blower
Stihl BG55 blower
Stihl FS55R trimmer
Stihl KM55R Kombi system
Stihl MS180C chain saw
Stihl HS45 hedge trimmer
RedMax Reciprocator
Echo SRM225 trimmer
Echo GT-2000 trimmer
Gravely WB edger
Husqvarna 580BTS blower
Dolmar 245.4 string trimmer
'06 Chevrolet Silverado
'13 Bravo Star, 7'X12', V-nose

Last edited by ducnut; 12-12-2013 at 09:05 PM.
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  #8  
Old 12-12-2013, 09:26 PM
Ridin' Green Ridin' Green is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducnut View Post
That's not true at all. Maybe, in your case.

Having spoken to a Hydro Gear engineer and two dealers about integrated drives in general, I'll stick to my earlier statement. They've seen a lot more issues than I'd ever encounter in a lifetime. I don't want a drive design rooted in the homeowner segment. My 42" has integrated drives and has had problems related to heat and usage. My dealer strongly recommended staying away from them, for commercial usage. Maybe, the Parker drives are better, I don't know.



Depends on whose brand of drives and tire diameter. For the integrated Hustlers, they are limited to ~9mph on the X-ONEi.

The leak point argument is almost verbatim from the marketers brochures. My dealer has been a LCO, since '77. He doesn't have nor see the supposed leak issues and has plenty of his old stuff sitting around to look at.



Why not the X--ONEi, as it has the intergrated drives you're a fan of?
Because the X one is a superior machine (according to the Hustler dealer as well as Hustler) with their larger engines and faster ground speeds.

You can scoff at the leak point issue, but common sense says that anytime there are more joints/unions, there is a greater potential for a leak to develop.

Several of the guys here who service and sell them say the integrated units are holding up as well as, or better than the separate units.

You said-
[quote=ducnut]
The X-ONEi is an integrated pump and drive system. I don't like these setups as they carry all the heat of both components in one case. I believe them to run those components at a much higher temperature than separate systems, which is probably why this type of drive is speed limited (~7-8mph). If you run the mower under heavy conditions, I feel like those components will fail much sooner. If you look at the Super Z HD, you'll see the drive system is made up of separate components, plus and a fan-cooled heat exchanger (~16mph machine). This alludes to what you want to look toward in any machine. The integrated systems are what you find in homeowner machines.[/quote
Granted, you said you "believe" but just believing something doesn't make it fact. What the servicing dealers report hereon LS and locally is based on real world experiences and much closer to being actual fact.

Your posts doesn't specify that you are referring solely to the hustler integrated drive units, thus my reply to it. Hydro Gear and Kanzaki both sell integrated units that will move a ZTR just as fast as what the Hustler separate units will, and in some cases faster.

All the top model units like the 5400 or the Kanzaki in the JD's run fans on the trans's for cooling, and some brands of Z that use integrated units have auillary trans oil coolers as well.

That last line is also inaccurate in that several very heavy duty L&G tractors from Simplicty and JD have been running them for about two decades now without many, if any, problems. Those machines ( and I've owned several so I know what they can do and take) work a trans every bit as hard as a Z most of the time, and harder by far at others, like when doing ground engaging work. many ZTR's have been running the integrated units for several years and are holding up great for 2000 hours and more with regularity. The integrated units used in commercial mowing applications from any brand are nowhere near the same units as sold at Lowe's and HD in their HO grade mowers.

BTW- I am not against separate units in the least. I would be perfectly fine with either system.
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  #9  
Old 12-12-2013, 09:42 PM
aroddy aroddy is offline
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I'm with Ridin' Green on this guys, I sell several brands and most of them are going with the hydro-gear transmissions because they are less expensive to produce without skipping on the quality / durability. I have YET to crack and hydro gear transmission open to repair. I have replaced several pump/wheel motor setups in the past 5 years. Most pre-mature failures ( 200hrs or less). When transmissions came out years ago- yea they sucked. but now the are taking over the market. I like them because they are easier to service. but take Hydro-Gears largest transmission, the ZT-5400- its used on several brands- but the Scag cheeta prolly puts the most stress on them since you know operators are mowing @14+ MPH putting the most stress on them, and how many of these units have you heard about failing???
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  #10  
Old 12-12-2013, 09:44 PM
ducnut ducnut is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridin' Green View Post
Granted, you said you "believe" but just believing something doesn't make it fact. What the servicing dealers report hereon LS and locally is based on real world experiences and much closer to being actual fact.
I believe that, because a HG engineer is telling me they run at higher temps, due to their containing the componentry in a single case (non-heat exchanger, integrated drives is what we were discussing). He told me what kills them is heavy loading, continuously running them at full-stick, or side-hilling. That is all I'm going off of. He made a recommendation to me, but, the particular machine is way beyond my needs. I went with the X-ONE, after looking at what prior SZs were running for drives, a couple other brands, and the dealer recommending this level of drive as an excellent starting point. The variety of stuff out there, you mentioned, is beyond my knowledge.
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'13 Hustler X-ONE, 60", Kohler ECV749 EFI
'05 Hustler FasTrak, 42", Honda GXV530
'13 Toro Timemaster 30"
'02 Lawn Boy SilverPro 21"
Stihl BR600 blower
Stihl BG55 blower
Stihl FS55R trimmer
Stihl KM55R Kombi system
Stihl MS180C chain saw
Stihl HS45 hedge trimmer
RedMax Reciprocator
Echo SRM225 trimmer
Echo GT-2000 trimmer
Gravely WB edger
Husqvarna 580BTS blower
Dolmar 245.4 string trimmer
'06 Chevrolet Silverado
'13 Bravo Star, 7'X12', V-nose
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