Register free!

The Green Industry's Resource Center



Reply
 
Thread Tools   Display Modes
  #41  
Old 01-14-2014, 08:19 PM
mrsops mrsops is offline
LawnSite Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 2,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by zabmasonry View Post
I'm just assuming that the axles are mounted as far back on the frame as possible.

The rotation point on the boom is very far back on that hoist.Additionally the boom seems pretty long for how short that truck is. I don't have any first-hand experience with swap-loaders, but it seems to me that the geometry of the hoist is just weird. Is the boom pin on the hoist at least above or preferably forward of the center point between the axles? assuming that your truck is within their specs, I'm wondering if the hoist on your truck was built for a long Cab-Axle (grunion) and ended up being cut down (from the back) to fit your frame.

I've picked 10 ton with a single axle hook lift (f750) with no problems, definitely felt it unload a bit, but nothing like that. There is definitely something screwy with that.

I'm not going to get out paper tonight and start doing force diagrams, but I'd demand the manufacture gets an engineer involved to figure this out. It's clear that this isn't just a matter of just a funny situation but a clear error at some point. At some point in the design process engineers must of spent a lot of time figuring out how to avoid having this happen.
I have an f750.. I have picked up 10 ton as well.. Truck struggled thou I'm thinking about turning up the hp in it what motor do you have??

I also have a 14 foot box that sucks when I'm dumping it angle is terrible.. 12 foot box is 10 times better
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 01-14-2014, 09:26 PM
ShadyTree's Avatar
ShadyTree ShadyTree is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEUSWEDE View Post
might be worth sending this guy an email http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsde...x?OHID=4830329 to see if he had the same problem. Seems to be almost the same truck as yours.
I give him a try tomorrow. Thanks for looking out.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 01-14-2014, 09:33 PM
ShadyTree's Avatar
ShadyTree ShadyTree is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsops View Post
I have an f750.. I have picked up 10 ton as well.. Truck struggled thou I'm thinking about turning up the hp in it what motor do you have??

I also have a 14 foot box that sucks when I'm dumping it angle is terrible.. 12 foot box is 10 times better
I have a 10 ton hook as well. At best it will pick close to 9 tons. It struggles at its capacity. Onces it on the truck I have a hell of a time trying to get it off. For some reason when I have that much weight on my smaller truck it just won't push it back. The pain in that the only way I can dump it is I have to push the box back before I lift it.

Finally got a hold of swap loader they have agreed to take a look at the truck. Next step is a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 01-14-2014, 10:14 PM
ShadyTree's Avatar
ShadyTree ShadyTree is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 63
Here is another video of the truck. We figured we had about 10.5 yds of wet dirt which is about 3300 lbs/cu yd making a total weight of around 34,000 lbs plus the box weight.

Check this out and let me know what you think http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gnZq8g344tI
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 01-15-2014, 01:15 AM
mxridernorth mxridernorth is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: North Saanich
Posts: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadyTree View Post
Here is another video of the truck. We figured we had about 10.5 yds of wet dirt which is about 3300 lbs/cu yd making a total weight of around 34,000 lbs plus the box weight.

Check this out and let me know what you think http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gnZq8g344tI
Did you get the empty weight on the FA and also the wheel base? From what I can discern by scaling off the photo, It looks like the boom pivot should be moved forward on the sub frame by about 1 to 1-1/2 ft. The front bottom corner of the bin should only just clear the rear of the truck as it is lifted. Any excess only takes away from the lifting capacity. Post a side-view video lifting an empty bin.

Here's a really quick sketch of where I'm coming up with the numbers. The scale was taken based on the bin being 14'.
Name:  Hooklift_w_paths.jpg
Views: 168
Size:  52.4 KB
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 01-15-2014, 07:29 AM
whiffyspark whiffyspark is online now
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Chesapeake beach
Posts: 5,520
Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 01-15-2014, 07:58 AM
zabmasonry zabmasonry is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: C. VT
Posts: 303
Does that truck have a set apart tandem configuration? I can't remember the standard distances but it looks to me like there might be a bit more room then normal.

I agree with mxridernorth, the rotation point of the boom is too far back. I don't have any experience with dual pivot hooklifts so my expertise is about null at this point. Hopefully swaploader will get you sorted out, I assume that you've contacted swaploader corporate and suggested that this isn't the greatest press for them.

as for picking 10 ton with a single axle, yeah I'd say that about all it will take. and we always had to find a hill to help the box to slide back before we could dump it. PIA. ditto on the 12 vs 14 or even 16 ft box. HP won't help you be able to lift more, thats either a pump or valve relief issue. I couldn't pick 10 ton without blocking the front of the box up a foot or so to help me through the most difficult part of lifting. If you want more hp for driving just remember that it will decrease he life of your engine.
__________________
UVM SBA 2012
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 01-15-2014, 09:21 AM
treemover treemover is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: lost in the trees, ks
Posts: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by mxridernorth View Post
Did you get the empty weight on the FA and also the wheel base? From what I can discern by scaling off the photo, It looks like the boom pivot should be moved forward on the sub frame by about 1 to 1-1/2 ft. The front bottom corner of the bin should only just clear the rear of the truck as it is lifted. Any excess only takes away from the lifting capacity. Post a side-view video lifting an empty bin.

Here's a really quick sketch of where I'm coming up with the numbers. The scale was taken based on the bin being 14'.
Attachment 284151
This makes a little sense. I was looking at this pic and his scales, I have 50k hook 61" hook height, I never noticed how far your hook was in relationship to the back of frame when picking up box. I bet on my truck it is at least a foot closer. When I lift boxes up they are almost rubbing the rollers when I get to frame height
Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 01-15-2014, 09:40 AM
Krafty Krafty is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: St. Louis MO
Posts: 670
I am going to be blunt about this and hope you don't take this the wrong way. You really just have a poorly set up truck for your needs. The way that truck is set up, length wise, there is no reason for it to be a tandem. As far as the hoist goes a 40k swap loader is on the smaller side for a hoist on a tandem. Unless you put some sort of stabilizer on the back that truck is never going to haul the kind of loads you are wanting too.

The pivot point as you guys are calling it on both of our hooklifts is right in the center of the rear axle. To be honest when the manufacture of these hoist send them out there is not much wiggle room as to where you can put the pivot point. When you buy a hoist you buy it specific to what chasis it is going on. When we purchased our Kenworth last spring for several weeks galbreath and Kenworth sent drawings back and forth to make sure both the truck and hoist were set up to match.

The problem is you are trying to operate that truck right at capacity or over its capacity. The fact that you can legally load that truck to 70k surprises me. Around here the most you could licenses that truck is to 54k and 66k if it had a drop axle. (exception in the commercial zones you can haul slightly over) My point being if you are trying to haul as you said in the previous post 34k plus lets say 4k for your box. You are trying to haul 37k on top of a truck that I am guessing empty is around 27k. So essentially, what you are trying to do is pull the entire load that truck is capable of hauling all up on one axle as you pull it onto the truck. There is a use for every type of truck from a hook, to cable, to single axle, to tandems and tri's. If you notice other trucks the guys that are hauling that kind of weight always have longer trucks, or a cable style hoist.

Our trucks are currently set up as single axle trucks with galbreath 30k hooks. The both will accept a 17' container with no overhang. When picking up a box with these trucks it will need to be around 11 ton before it will begin to lift the front tires up, which is way over weight for these trucks.

I hate to say it but whoever sold you the truck did not do a very good job of educating you on what you need. In my opinion if you are hauling a lot of bulk materials, and need a small wheel base to pull a trailer you would be much better off with a dedicated dump truck.
__________________
www.stldumpsters.com
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 01-15-2014, 10:35 AM
NEUSWEDE NEUSWEDE is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,135
Food for thought, check out thtis video by swaploader ( I know its a single axle but still proves a point) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td7QL...share&index=10
look where the bottom of the hook pivots at is in front of the rear axle, in your video yours is behind your rear axle. I guess I am on the same page as yours needs to move forward. Maybe that modified yours to fit the frame on the truck versus modifiying the truck to fit the hoist.
Another of their videos to compare to, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kScc...xzck5xlKAH6_GK
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:42 AM.

Page generated in 0.07525 seconds with 8 queries