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  #51  
Old 01-15-2014, 09:44 AM
NEUSWEDE NEUSWEDE is offline
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another video that demostrates whats going on. http://youtu.be/njZ1T99QU0o the pivot point of the hook is between the axles, notice how the truck comes off the ground not when it lifts but when the full weight of the bin is on the rear rollers acting like a fulcrum which is what yours is doing when you lift and get the full weight of the bin on the hook and the hook is putting that wight behind the rear axle caucing it to lift where if it was in front of the rear axle it couldn't do that. I might be way off though that dual pivot is weird and not familiar with it just tossing ideas out there based on videos on here.

Last edited by NEUSWEDE; 01-15-2014 at 09:50 AM. Reason: added
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  #52  
Old 01-15-2014, 10:57 AM
treemover treemover is offline
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I want to start by saying this a bad situation that a manufacturer has put you in. I said this before in my original post(I dont want to start a pissing match on this subject) I really don't think you can legally how much weight you want. In any state if you have on an interstate you can have more than 22,400 per axle, so 44,800 on rears and 20K on your front. that's in a perfect world if weight is spread correctly. My DOT guys said to figure about 80% of your front capacity. Also, I think length is really hurting you, all the way around, there is a chart on safer.org on total length from front axle to rears, and if your too short the weight rating decreases. the truck is a lever or counter-balance when picking up your box, in my opinion the truck is not long enough to fully maximize the full capacity of your hoist. I would double and triple check with your dot officers on what you can haul, get it in writing. Cause if you are trying to do more with the truck then it can safely be operated at, any attorney that the manufacturer has would eat that you up.
good luck and keep us posted!!
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  #53  
Old 01-15-2014, 12:53 PM
mxridernorth mxridernorth is offline
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Legal weight aside (that truck would be capped at 57420 lbs here), someone should have done the math ahead of time to confirm the capabilities of the truck to load a bin and then fit the hoist accordingly.
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  #54  
Old 01-15-2014, 04:44 PM
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ShadyTree ShadyTree is offline
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A lot of information was just giving so i need to go back and read it over again but just to talk about a couple of points. When we went to swap loader we told them exactly what we were expecting out of this truck. I have several emails going back and forth explaining what we do how much we are looking to pick up and that we pull a trailer 20ton trailer. With that being said this was the unit that was specified to us do to the total length of our rig with the trailer. The interesting part is that this unit from swap loader only recommends a 130"-138" CT. When i bought my truck i made sure i either had at least that or more. My truck has a 145" CT and total length of frame is approx 205 1/2", 7-15" longer then what they recommend. They knew the exact truck i bought, they even had their engineers come and look at the truck before the unit was ordered and not once did they ever say we are going to have issues lifting an 18 ton box. Never suggested a stabilizer bar, never suggested counter weighs because the geometry of the truck doesn’t work. I never assumed to question it since swap loader is a very reputable company. If they said its going to work, i figured it would work and not do extensive research and load calculation.
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  #55  
Old 01-15-2014, 04:46 PM
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ShadyTree ShadyTree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treemover View Post
I want to start by saying this a bad situation that a manufacturer has put you in. I said this before in my original post(I dont want to start a pissing match on this subject) I really don't think you can legally how much weight you want. In any state if you have on an interstate you can have more than 22,400 per axle, so 44,800 on rears and 20K on your front. that's in a perfect world if weight is spread correctly. My DOT guys said to figure about 80% of your front capacity. Also, I think length is really hurting you, all the way around, there is a chart on safer.org on total length from front axle to rears, and if your too short the weight rating decreases. the truck is a lever or counter-balance when picking up your box, in my opinion the truck is not long enough to fully maximize the full capacity of your hoist. I would double and triple check with your dot officers on what you can haul, get it in writing. Cause if you are trying to do more with the truck then it can safely be operated at, any attorney that the manufacturer has would eat that you up.
good luck and keep us posted!!
This is what they told us we can run in NJ with this truck. The truck is registered and DOT approved as a 70,000 GVW truck
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  #56  
Old 01-15-2014, 05:01 PM
earthmover earthmover is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadyTree View Post
This is what they told us we can run in NJ with this truck. The truck is registered and DOT approved as a 70,000 GVW truck
I'm positive you can run 70,000 GVW on a tandem in NJ. I've been through the scale with my tandem on 287 with 68+ on not a problem. Plus every load I get deliver from the quarry come with 25 tons on a tria-xle.

I hope the manufacturer has some insight to your truck problem. I've had some problems with a body builder in NJ but they made good on it though.
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  #57  
Old 01-15-2014, 05:47 PM
mxridernorth mxridernorth is offline
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Like I said, it's a simple statics problem. If you want to know how much your truck can lift, use the following:

Front axle weight X Dist front axle to tandem group center = 1/2 X Weight of bin X Dist hook to tandem group center

The left side of the equation is fixed and the variables are on the right side of the equation. If you are determined to be able to pick up a specific load, then the only thing you can adjust is the hook distance, so solve for Dist hook and that answers your question.
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  #58  
Old 01-15-2014, 06:02 PM
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ShadyTree ShadyTree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxridernorth View Post
Like I said, it's a simple statics problem. If you want to know how much your truck can lift, use the following:

Front axle weight X Dist front axle to tandem group center = 1/2 X Weight of bin X Dist hook to tandem group center

The left side of the equation is fixed and the variables are on the right side of the equation. If you are determined to be able to pick up a specific load, then the only thing you can adjust is the hook distance, so solve for Dist hook and that answers your question.
How do I find front axle weight? Just place the front wheels on the scale? The weight of bin is just the container empty? the hook distance is with the hook all the way back like I am about to pick a box and measure to the center of the tandem? I'll try and get all of this tomorrow so you can walk me through the equation. Would adding counter weight to the front bumper help the equation as well? Thank you for this information.
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  #59  
Old 01-15-2014, 06:43 PM
mxridernorth mxridernorth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadyTree View Post
How do I find front axle weight? Just place the front wheels on the scale? The weight of bin is just the container empty? the hook distance is with the hook all the way back like I am about to pick a box and measure to the center of the tandem? I'll try and get all of this tomorrow so you can walk me through the equation. Would adding counter weight to the front bumper help the equation as well? Thank you for this information.
Yes, just place the front wheels on the scale. The weight of the bin is the full weight including the bin (this assumes even distribution in the bin). Hook distance is when the hook is back and at the level it would be just picking up the bin - like if you dropped a plumb bob to the ground and measured from this point to the middle of the tandem axle group. Essentially this is one lever fighting another. And yes adding weight to the front of the truck would help but to figure out how much you need, weigh everything as it sits.
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  #60  
Old 01-15-2014, 06:52 PM
whiffyspark whiffyspark is online now
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Wouldn't adding weights affect payload and front axle weights? Just curious.

Seems like a rear stabilizer would be the best solution if they don't do anything for you.
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