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  #61  
Old 03-25-2014, 05:02 PM
Mark Oomkes Mark Oomkes is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
We were supposed to have an El Nino winter but that never materialized. El Nino usually send storms across the lower half of the US. CA usually gets flooded and so does the SE. We haven't had an El Nino even in 15 years or so I don't think. Neutral usually means there is an equal chance of drought anywhere. Nothing really influencing the weather patterns.
Israel has one of the largest desalination plants in the world. If that tiny country can do it then why can't we? The only problem they have is how to get rid of the salt. The Northern half of the US could use the salt right now. CA could go into the Sea salt selling biz. Strange that we spend 100s of billions on everything except making sure the population has water during droughts. Almost surrounded by the Ocean the richest country is still rationing water in 2014
El Nino and La Nina have been proven to be as unpredictable as all weather patterns the last few years. In other words: they have no freaking clue.

We had a bunch of snow with an El Nino when it was supposed to be dry and warm.

We had warm and virtually no snow in a La Nina year when it is supposed to be cold and lots of snow.

PDO and AO have more to do with weather than either of those so called phenomena.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcg View Post
Seems like it would be a whole lot easier to build a water pipeline from the San Diego or Los Angeles coast to their respective water purveyors than to build a new one from Northern California. The logistics of getting water from the beach to the tap are a whole lot less daunting than getting it from Sacramento to San Diego.

And the production costs of desal should be irrelevant, if you want to live in a desert you need to expect your water to be expensive instead of stealing it from other areas so it can be cheap/subsidized.
Don't overpopulate a desert and then complain when there isn't enough water. It's pretty basic math.

Glad to hear your wife is doing better John.
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  #62  
Old 03-26-2014, 08:28 AM
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Crimson Lawn Crimson Lawn is offline
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Mark,
I really do feel for California's drought. Here in Missouri, we are starting to battle some dryness. We are about 30" down over the last 3 years. I don't get how with all the technology and environmentalist there, California cannot be more proactive when it comes to water. You think all people, from all walks of life and political affiliation would want to be proactive about water. It's also more than just conservation.

Seems you and I track the teleconnections that influence our weather. Not only are the one's that you mentioned, there is also the WPO, EPO, AMO and the NAO. The first 2 influence you more but eventually play a part in our weather here. That upper western ridge has been killer to Cali and has not helped us out. A neutral ENSO, moving to a slight El Nino, may help. Found several wright up's about the AMO is part of a larger conveyor belt that helps transport Atlantic moisture westward, I think it's broken. One thing for sure, the Jet Stream has not allowed the NAO to go negative to give us any blocking. I am currently reading on why, with the AO not really negative, we have been cold, all points come back to the PDO with little to no influence from the AMO or ENSO. Throw in the MJO's activity has been stuck in the Indian Ocean for what seems to be over a year.
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  #63  
Old 03-26-2014, 08:49 AM
Mark Oomkes Mark Oomkes is online now
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Originally Posted by Crimson Lawn View Post
Mark,
I really do feel for California's drought. Here in Missouri, we are starting to battle some dryness. We are about 30" down over the last 3 years. I don't get how with all the technology and environmentalist there, California cannot be more proactive when it comes to water. You think all people, from all walks of life and political affiliation would want to be proactive about water. It's also more than just conservation.

Seems you and I track the teleconnections that influence our weather. Not only are the one's that you mentioned, there is also the WPO, EPO, AMO and the NAO. The first 2 influence you more but eventually play a part in our weather here. That upper western ridge has been killer to Cali and has not helped us out. A neutral ENSO, moving to a slight El Nino, may help. Found several wright up's about the AMO is part of a larger conveyor belt that helps transport Atlantic moisture westward, I think it's broken. One thing for sure, the Jet Stream has not allowed the NAO to go negative to give us any blocking. I am currently reading on why, with the AO not really negative, we have been cold, all points come back to the PDO with little to no influence from the AMO or ENSO. Throw in the MJO's activity has been stuck in the Indian Ocean for what seems to be over a year.
All I can do is look at the waste of water going on in Vegas with all the casinos.

If peeps really think water is not going to be an issue in a desert, well, maybe they belong in Kali then.

The Great Lakes have been dropping since '86. That was the highest lake levels on record. 2 years ago we had a major drought. The past 2 years the lake levels have been going back up. Everything is cyclical, nothing to do with alleged AGW.

But putting millions of folks in a desert and expecting the water to never run out..................................
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  #64  
Old 03-26-2014, 09:23 AM
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DanaMac DanaMac is online now
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Winter of 2010-2011 here in CO, we had record snowfall in the mountains, everything was wonderful waterwise. 2011-2013 winter snowfall was awful, and record heat through the summers, led to major water restrictions in 2013. Two days a week was no where near enough water for a high elevation, semi arid climate with record heat - hence two years of forest fires here in the city.

Forward to now. Winter of 2013-2014 has snowpack at 175% normal in some areas, and reservoir levels just below average. Yet there was an article in this weekend's paper saying that our fine utility department may not have ANY restrictions this summer. Keep it at 3 days a week, forever. Get people used to it being the norm. We went to drought conditions in two years. Meeting on Monday with utilities where they will tell us water/snow levels, water restrictions, pricing tiers and rates. They should be promoting conservation every single year.
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  #65  
Old 03-26-2014, 09:38 AM
Mark Oomkes Mark Oomkes is online now
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Originally Posted by DanaMac View Post
Winter of 2010-2011 here in CO, we had record snowfall in the mountains, everything was wonderful waterwise. 2011-2013 winter snowfall was awful, and record heat through the summers, led to major water restrictions in 2013. Two days a week was no where near enough water for a high elevation, semi arid climate with record heat - hence two years of forest fires here in the city.

Forward to now. Winter of 2013-2014 has snowpack at 175% normal in some areas, and reservoir levels just below average. Yet there was an article in this weekend's paper saying that our fine utility department may not have ANY restrictions this summer. Keep it at 3 days a week, forever. Get people used to it being the norm. We went to drought conditions in two years. Meeting on Monday with utilities where they will tell us water/snow levels, water restrictions, pricing tiers and rates. They should be promoting conservation every single year.
Brilliant!!!!!!!
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  #66  
Old 03-26-2014, 12:08 PM
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RhettMan RhettMan is offline
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never, would i have expected to enjoy such a signature as that one. Alot of what he says makes alot of good sense.
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  #67  
Old 03-26-2014, 04:42 PM
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But putting millions of folks in a desert and expecting the water to never run out..................................

Some People just think of .......
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  #68  
Old 03-26-2014, 05:28 PM
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1idejim 1idejim is online now
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  #69  
Old 03-26-2014, 09:53 PM
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gusbuster gusbuster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes View Post
All I can do is look at the waste of water going on in Vegas with all the casinos.

If peeps really think water is not going to be an issue in a desert, well, maybe they belong in Kali then.

The Great Lakes have been dropping since '86. That was the highest lake levels on record. 2 years ago we had a major drought. The past 2 years the lake levels have been going back up. Everything is cyclical, nothing to do with alleged AGW.

But putting millions of folks in a desert and expecting the water to never run out..................................
Mark,
The problem with water conversation is you only have so many people but not the will to do what is necessary to make water go round n round like it should..

For example, why don't we use water and drink water that has been treated, so clean that it's more pure than rain\snow melt? Oh wait, the water came from our excrement and urine. It's my understanding that our subs recycle water this way.

The other issue is the ability to store water....in CA, there has not been a major reservoir built or dam since the late 70's or early 80's yet the population through birth and migration has tripled population and demand.

I point this out because the same is true in other part of the country. It's not just a west or east coast thing but a national problem that needs to be thought out and discussed without emotion.
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  #70  
Old 03-26-2014, 10:02 PM
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RhettMan RhettMan is offline
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....just say it?
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