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  #11  
Old 01-28-2014, 08:56 AM
GravelyWalker GravelyWalker is offline
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Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post
Well, do they?

Has anyone ever given this any second thought?

My guess - probably not. But of course.....I have.

It's winter, right? All these e-mails comin in from about 4 different paver manufacturers nearly every day. Nearly all the e-mails say the same thing:

"Dear Andrew Hardscape,

Come to our seminar and learn how to estimate"
Great, lets help create even more low ballers that don't have any business messing with excavation and compaction. If you don't know how to estimate - then what makes you think you have a shot at making it in this industry??

"Come to our seminar and see the pavers"
I have seen pavers in my sleep. I haven't laid a finger on a paver in ten years, why would I want to see them? There is nothing exciting about seeing pavers, even if they're new. Does a tire dealer get excited to go see new tires?

"Come to our seminar and learn how to build a retaining wall"
So all Cooter has to do is attend a 20 minute demonstration on building walls and he's earned the right to put a magnetic sign on his F250 with the cool smelling exhaust.

"Come to our seminar and learn how to market your business"
This is just what I want, for my competitors to get insight on how to get their name out there. I wonder how many seminars the owner of Outback Steakhouse had to attend to get it right?

"Come to our seminar for a FREE lunch"!
Hot Diggity, now We're talking, Que Que Que!
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I have a couple questions for you. Now I have not been to one of these seminars, but how is going to a class on estimating going to created more low ballers?

Also what is with the competitor hate? Competition is good. If they are low balling everyone with in a short while they will be out of business and you will have more business fixing all his mistakes.

Last edited by GravelyWalker; 01-28-2014 at 09:05 AM.
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  #12  
Old 01-28-2014, 10:12 AM
DVS Hardscaper's Avatar
DVS Hardscaper DVS Hardscaper is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyWalker View Post
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I have a couple questions for you. Now I have not been to one of these seminars, but how is going to a class on estimating going to created more low ballers? The seminars create a false sense. It's like lawn mowing - "hey, all you need is a truck and a mower and you're set". So the seminars tell the thousands of unqualified wanna be hardscapers that it's ok to not know business instinct, because we the paver manufacturer will teach you how to estimate. The classes / seminars are geared for the start up contractor. Veteran contractors know how to estimate. We know how to market. We know how to write contracts. Many people will work for a contractor like me, they will be great in the field. Then they want to go on their own, not knowing a thing about business management. but wait! the paver manufacturer will hold a class! All you gotta do is come to them! The paver manufacturers know that the average contractor builds 26-30 paver jobs a year. They don't CARE who is dropping their pavers on the ground. All they care about is that they have a piece of that pie.

Contractors on this forum have talked about giving away tablets to prospective clients to close a sale. To win them over. To make them a believer. Well - the manufacturing industry ain't dumb. They are doing the same thing with us contractors by means of estimating classes, free lunches, a box with t-shirts. They know that if we invest a full day with them - we WILL buy from them. They don't care about incompetent contractors. They care about the numbers on their daily inventory sheets. Just like us contractors, we don't care about our customers digital device needs. We WANT THEIR MONEY.


Also what is with the competitor hate? Competition is good. If they are low balling everyone with in a short while they will be out of business and you will have more business fixing all his mistakes. Well, sounds good doesn't it? But it really does not work like that. Sure they will be out of business. Most guys that get into hardscaping last no more than 5 years. I see it all the time. reality is - they don't go out of business 6 months later. It may take 4-5 years. My core business is not "fixing" other's mistakes. My core business is ME ME ME NOW NOW NOW.

responses in red. thanks for asking!
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My Equipment Brag List:

-1 CAT hat
-16 pairs of Hanes socks (the Heavy Duty model), many with holes.
-12 pairs of underwear, ranging from Joe Boxers to Jockey, many are in need of replacement. (no more photo requests please)
-hundreds of t-shirts. Some w/ grease stains, some torn & tattered.
-7 pairs of jeans, ranging from Levis to Polo to GAP. 1/2 of them have holes in 'em.
-1 belt
-1 pair of old worn out Nike shoes.

Last edited by DVS Hardscaper; 01-28-2014 at 10:18 AM.
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  #13  
Old 01-28-2014, 10:35 AM
GravelyWalker GravelyWalker is offline
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Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post
responses in red. thanks for asking!
I do understand all of that. But for guys like me who are trying to expand our knowlege to be of better assistance to our customers i think it could be great help. I know that getting into the business is more of a process than going to a one day siminar but it is somewhere to start. I know how to estimate but would like to get some industry specific knowledge. That is all i am saying
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  #14  
Old 01-28-2014, 10:45 AM
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DVS Hardscaper DVS Hardscaper is online now
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Originally Posted by GravelyWalker View Post
I do understand all of that. But for guys like me who are trying to expand our knowlege to be of better assistance to our customers i think it could be great help. I know that getting into the business is more of a process than going to a one day siminar but it is somewhere to start. I know how to estimate but would like to get some industry specific knowledge. That is all i am saying
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Absolutely it's a GREAT help.

And if all works out for you, in about 8 years after you've been to every seminary, every year - you'll start to see what I mean, and you'll think of this thread

Techo-bloc. On their facebook. For each class they hold they post about 25-30 pictures. Look at the people in the photos!
__________________
"It's You vs. You"

"People Throw Rocks At Things That Shine"


My Equipment Brag List:

-1 CAT hat
-16 pairs of Hanes socks (the Heavy Duty model), many with holes.
-12 pairs of underwear, ranging from Joe Boxers to Jockey, many are in need of replacement. (no more photo requests please)
-hundreds of t-shirts. Some w/ grease stains, some torn & tattered.
-7 pairs of jeans, ranging from Levis to Polo to GAP. 1/2 of them have holes in 'em.
-1 belt
-1 pair of old worn out Nike shoes.
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  #15  
Old 01-28-2014, 10:55 AM
GravelyWalker GravelyWalker is offline
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Location: Indianapolis Indiana
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Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post
Absolutely it's a GREAT help.

And if all works out for you, in about 8 years after you've been to every seminary, every year - you'll start to see what I mean, and you'll think of this thread

Techo-bloc. On their facebook. For each class they hold they post about 25-30 pictures. Look at the people in the photos!
Yeah i know what you are saying . The way they advertise may attract the incompitant contractor thinking it is an easy process. But in your opinion is the information useful? Maybe not for the veteran but for the compitant contractor trying to do better?
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  #16  
Old 01-28-2014, 11:06 AM
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DVS Hardscaper DVS Hardscaper is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelyWalker View Post
Yeah i know what you are saying . The way they advertise may attract the incompitant contractor thinking it is an easy process. But in your opinion is the information useful? Maybe not for the veteran but for the compitant contractor trying to do better?
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Any information anywhere for anything can be helpful. The value is in the beholder.

Yes, the information is helpful.

The best information is from the VanderKoi (spelling) seminars. I would recommend you attend a VanderKoi class over anything else.

But like anything in life - it's all about HOW BAD YOU WANT IT.
__________________
"It's You vs. You"

"People Throw Rocks At Things That Shine"


My Equipment Brag List:

-1 CAT hat
-16 pairs of Hanes socks (the Heavy Duty model), many with holes.
-12 pairs of underwear, ranging from Joe Boxers to Jockey, many are in need of replacement. (no more photo requests please)
-hundreds of t-shirts. Some w/ grease stains, some torn & tattered.
-7 pairs of jeans, ranging from Levis to Polo to GAP. 1/2 of them have holes in 'em.
-1 belt
-1 pair of old worn out Nike shoes.
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  #17  
Old 02-03-2014, 11:38 PM
Armsden&Son Armsden&Son is online now
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DVS...... I know I have been getting in trouble for growing your ego but damn you are a genius.....

Great posts on this page man....
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  #18  
Old 02-04-2014, 08:39 AM
DVS Hardscaper's Avatar
DVS Hardscaper DVS Hardscaper is online now
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Originally Posted by Armsden&Son View Post
DVS...... I know I have been getting in trouble for growing your ego but damn you are a genius.....

Great posts on this page man....
LOL I have no ego, people on this site think I do so over the years I've gone along with it and played into it as part of my online personality!
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  #19  
Old 02-04-2014, 08:46 AM
mrusk mrusk is offline
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I know vanderkoi is very big on teaching contractor to know their costs and expenses to do business so they price accurately. The thing that always bothered me is that your expenses really don't dictate the job price. The free market dictates the price. You can't just buy a fleet of new trucks every year and factor it into your hourly rate and think everything is going to be ok.
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  #20  
Old 02-04-2014, 09:33 AM
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DVS Hardscaper DVS Hardscaper is online now
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Humans are nothing more than sheep. They like to follow one another and all do the same thing. "Oh, it's January / February, time to go to the paver seminars". Not realizing that they've been to the same seminars for the past 6 consecutive years! Or it's "eou eou, gotta go, or the local competitors will think I've gone out of business".

Anyone remember going to these seminars back when Nextel's were the big thing? (and remember how big those Nextels were!) And how everyone at the seminars JUST HAD to be on their Nextel Direct Connect during the seminars feeling important and king of the world? LOL
__________________
"It's You vs. You"

"People Throw Rocks At Things That Shine"


My Equipment Brag List:

-1 CAT hat
-16 pairs of Hanes socks (the Heavy Duty model), many with holes.
-12 pairs of underwear, ranging from Joe Boxers to Jockey, many are in need of replacement. (no more photo requests please)
-hundreds of t-shirts. Some w/ grease stains, some torn & tattered.
-7 pairs of jeans, ranging from Levis to Polo to GAP. 1/2 of them have holes in 'em.
-1 belt
-1 pair of old worn out Nike shoes.
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