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  #51  
Old 02-18-2014, 06:05 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Originally Posted by FdLLawnMan View Post
Due to the coal plants being cleaned and no more acid rain the soils ph levels are slowly starting to rise. You can add sulfur or do as I do, add some ammonium sulfate. I will say with all certainty, fertilizing the turf with some ammonium sulfate will lead to a better green color than straight urea, at least in my area. If soils have adequate micronutrients, adding more will be of no benefit. Why do professors recommend 3 to 4 lb's of nitrogen. Years of studying the response of turf to various levels of nitrogen applied has lead them to that conclusion.
Damn environuts and tree huggers screwed everything up!
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  #52  
Old 02-18-2014, 07:20 PM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
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Originally Posted by FdLLawnMan View Post
Due to the coal plants being cleaned and no more acid rain the soils ph levels are slowly starting to rise. You can add sulfur or do as I do, add some ammonium sulfate. I will say with all certainty, fertilizing the turf with some ammonium sulfate will lead to a better green color than straight urea, at least in my area. If soils have adequate micronutrients, adding more will be of no benefit. Why do professors recommend 3 to 4 lb's of nitrogen. Years of studying the response of turf to various levels of nitrogen applied has lead them to that conclusion.
Yes. There is a differential in response between AS and urea based on soil pH. I get more green for less N applied from AS. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as an AS granule coated to release over 60-90 days. MESA is a combination of Methylene Urea and AS.

The soil test for micronutrients involves an acidic chelating solution to extract the iron, etc from the soil. I deal with a lot of soil that has the iron, manganese, and other metals, but no promises they are available to the grass or plants at the site pH of 7.5. I do well to use chelated or sulfate micronutrients and an acidifying fertilizer. Going so far as to add 1 lb per 1000 sq ft of food grade citric acid to the mix on top of using AS as the nitrogen source.
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  #53  
Old 02-18-2014, 07:50 PM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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For me. Most Florida turf in sandy soil greatly benefit from this blend even at 1/2 rate if the turf is in healthy conditions it becomes very economical.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS TOTAL NITROGEN (N)......................................................9.00% 2.55% Ammoniacal Nitrogen (N) 6.45% Urea Nitrogen (N)* SOLUBLE POTASH (K2O)..............................................24.00% MAGNESIUM (Mg) Total...................................................2.00% 2.00% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg) SULFUR (S) Total.............................................................3.79% 1.39% Free Sulfur (S) 2.40% Combined Sulfur (S) IRON (Fe) Total.................................................................6.00% 0.06% Water Soluble Iron (Fe) MANGANESE (Mn) Total..................................................2.00% 0.29% Water Soluble Manganese (Mn) DERIVED FROM: Polymer Coated Sulfur Coated Urea, Urea, Ammonium Sulfate, Muriate of Potash, Magnesium Sucrate, Iron Sucrate, Manganese Sucrate. CHLORINE (Cl) Max........................................................18.00% *2.25% Slowly Available Urea Nitrogen from Polymer Coated Sulfur Coated Urea
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  #54  
Old 02-18-2014, 08:08 PM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
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What a difference location makes. I could use something like that if sand were kept as sand and dirt kept where it belongs.
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  #55  
Old 02-18-2014, 08:11 PM
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heritage heritage is offline
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Larry,

Can you post some soil test results? Curious what your Sodium Levels are as well as OM %. Who does your soil testing and do you know your clay % as well?
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  #56  
Old 02-18-2014, 09:12 PM
Cadzilla Cadzilla is offline
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Originally Posted by americanlawn View Post
Good point Cad. We used to run "iron routes" during the springtime in Texas ChemLawn. You could always tell which 800 gallon steel tanker trucks ran iron (surface rust and a few pin holes). LOL

My aim is to supply micros (especially Fe) during late spring only. I also realize nutrients like iron & nitrogen do not often last very long. As for early fall & late fall -- we go heavier with N with no micros.

Now if I could figure out an easy way to place organic matter into the soil profile/root zone......I would be a millionaire. So much for an 8th grade education. lol Larry
Then add the micros and cut the N back for round 1 and 2. They are usually closer together than the rest of the apps so you can get away with less N plus the lawns are growing at that time anyhow.

Unless it's deficient....ya know?

Then round three run full strength with the grub combos or what have you.

Thats kinda what I do.



At the end of the day this business is about the weeds anyhow.

I never get questions about the fert or color.


If weeds didn't exist neither would this industry.

I'd be workin at starbucks.
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  #57  
Old 02-19-2014, 06:10 PM
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americanlawn americanlawn is offline
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Originally Posted by heritage View Post
Larry,

Can you post some soil test results? Curious what your Sodium Levels are as well as OM %. Who does your soil testing and do you know your clay % as well?
MVTL Labs did our (200) soil tests. They didn't test for salt content -- I figure it's cuz we don't have salty soils in the upper Midwest. Although gypsum can be beneficial for high salt soils (ISU, etc).

One sample soil test:

Organic matter 2.6% (low)
P (ppm) 18-33 (high)
K (ppm) 220 (high)
Zinc 0.8 (high)
Sulfur 1.0 (low)
Acidity (pH) 8.1
Sulfur index 7.5
Calcium (ppm) 3400
Magnesium (ppm) 320
Lime = not required (duh) lol
possible Boron deficiency

Where did the richest soil on the planet (Iowa) go? Home builders bury it cuz it's cheaper. Sad.
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  #58  
Old 02-19-2014, 06:16 PM
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americanlawn americanlawn is offline
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Cadzilla -- I love your last post. I think the same way. Nice reply.
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  #59  
Old 02-19-2014, 07:43 PM
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heritage heritage is offline
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Originally Posted by americanlawn View Post
MVTL Labs did our (200) soil tests. They didn't test for salt content -- I figure it's cuz we don't have salty soils in the upper Midwest. Although gypsum can be beneficial for high salt soils (ISU, etc).

One sample soil test:

Organic matter 2.6% (low)
P (ppm) 18-33 (high)
K (ppm) 220 (high)
Zinc 0.8 (high)
Sulfur 1.0 (low)
Acidity (pH) 8.1
Sulfur index 7.5
Calcium (ppm) 3400
Magnesium (ppm) 320
Lime = not required (duh) lol
possible Boron deficiency

Where did the richest soil on the planet (Iowa) go? Home builders bury it cuz it's cheaper. Sad.
Larry,

MVTL could have used Mehlich III or Olsen as extraction method. For your pH above 7 you should be asking for Olsen.

Yes a LOT of free Ca with your high pH and likely locking up anions like P big time as well as causing uptake competition for your + charge Micros.

Can you tell me what county you are in so I can look up your parent soils using web soil survey?

You may want to consider doing a few soil tests with Crop Services International. Do the LaMotte Test to get a "Real World" availability to plant roots. Mehlich III is FAR more acid extraction and shows higher levels than available to plants in your real world.

Also the organic matter has been suggested to you. Since you do liquid apps., why not add "Humic Substances" to your fert mixes? You know a little goes a long way, and even though it will not be incorporated into the soils, it will help to Chelate some of that Free Lime and Micros too. This would lower your soil pH over time so long as you continue to use humic substances with each N application. Eventually you can cut back on the N as your soil biology increases from the added carbon.

4 years ago I was using 2x the N, to get the same result as I do now with almost 1/2 the N and less micros......pH more stable and improved soil structure.

And less weeds LOL sure, but still have weeds regardless of the healthier soils so we don't have to worry about our jobs going away.

And YES charge more for it.
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  #60  
Old 02-19-2014, 09:01 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Well said.
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