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  #21  
Old 01-31-2014, 08:57 PM
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4 seasons lawn&land 4 seasons lawn&land is offline
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Originally Posted by unkownfl View Post
As far as utility companies are concerned there are there types of voltage classes. Secondary voltage is 600 volts and under which is what all residential and commercial properties are provided usually in forms of 120/240 (single phase only takes 1 phase of primary voltage) 208/120/240 ( takes two primary voltage feeds) the 208 is a high leg really this is common for small warehouses where they just need a third leg to turn motors. Now getting into bigger commercials you have 120/208 and 277/480 which uses all three phases of the primary voltage distribution. Now there are some other secondary combinations but 99% of the time it will be in one of these forms.

I can promise you that your customer does not have a mile of secondary wire before it hits a tx (transformer). The longest service I have ever seen in all of Florida was close to 500ft and it had huge issues. This was a parallel run of 4/0 tplx (three runs of cable twisted together so 6 runs total two for each phase and two for neutral)

Another option for you if you insist on trying to accomplish this would be to run multiple runs of smaller cable vs trying to use one tplx run of large cable.

Now I'm telling you from an engineering stance, nobody will recommend a 2000ft run of secondary it's a waste of money and you will have other electrical issues.

It's much cheaper to run primary voltage which is normally in the forms of 4kv 7.2kv 7.6kv 12.47kv or 13.2kv which is kilo volts pretty much multiple that times 1000. This way you run one cable the 1900ft or whatever hit a transformer that steps it down to 120/240 right before it goes into the house(s).

When you run a higher voltage you can use smaller cable as it draws less amps. The bare wires you see on the side of busy roads on the top of the pole (usually 4 with the lower one being the smaller one (neutral). They're what is referred to as "primary voltages" and this size wire is usually 1/0-795kcmil and it powers the entire city. These wires (cables) are normally ACSR (Aluminum conductor steel reinforced). It is air cooled so aluminum here can carry up to around 1200 amps when it is in the ground direct buried it can handle the second most amount of amps. Now when you put it in conduit it can carry even less amps.

To finish this off, if you're putting it into conduit, there is no way in hell you will pull 2000ft of copper wire even with a cummins. You would have to install multiple pull boxes and loop the conductors around in the box to continue pulling the rest.

I think if you contact your utility company you will realize it will be much less than 25k to install your services.


Wow. What a wealth of info, Thanks. I'm definitely not set on any method in particular. Whatever is the proper way. I definitely was figuring in a transformer, I hadn't mentioned that though. I had figured 25 k, I was obviously looking at the wrong products, but it sounds like I'm still safe with that 25 k number. Hopefully it's less. so I am still working on buying this piece of land in question. We will see.

Last edited by 4 seasons lawn&land; 01-31-2014 at 09:05 PM.
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  #22  
Old 01-31-2014, 09:11 PM
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unkownfl unkownfl is offline
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Originally Posted by 4 seasons lawn&land View Post
Wow. What a wealth of info, Thanks. I'm definitely not set on any method in particular. Whatever is the proper way. I definitely was figuring in a transformer, I hadn't mentioned that though. I had figured 25 k, I was obviously looking at the wrong products, but it sounds like I'm still safe with that 25 k number. Hopefully it's less. so I am still working on buying this piece of land in question. We will see.
Transformers are rated in KVA you need to be looking at pad mount transformers and I would suggest a 50kva tx for two houses and a small warehouse/shop for welding etc. You would then probably need a step up inside transformer for your shop that you would mount after your meter inside your shop. I'm not saying a 25kva wouldn't do it but for the price which is not very much between the two I would go with the larger unit.

How many sqft under air and how big of a shop and intended uses are you going with?
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  #23  
Old 01-31-2014, 09:38 PM
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2 houses would be just 2500 sq ft ish each. And shop, nothing huge, 3 large truck bays. Truck lift, compressor, welder etc.
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  #24  
Old 01-31-2014, 11:26 PM
twomancrew twomancrew is online now
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Originally Posted by 4 seasons lawn&land View Post
Wow. What a wealth of info, Thanks. I'm definitely not set on any method in particular. Whatever is the proper way. I definitely was figuring in a transformer, I hadn't mentioned that though. I had figured 25 k, I was obviously looking at the wrong products, but it sounds like I'm still safe with that 25 k number. Hopefully it's less. so I am still working on buying this piece of land in question. We will see.
I'm glad it sounds good to you however it is obvious this guy is talking out his rear at this point. I've already said my piece so I will kindly unsub from this thread-you've been warned OP
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  #25  
Old 02-01-2014, 01:26 AM
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I'm glad it sounds good to you however it is obvious this guy is talking out his rear at this point. I've already said my piece so I will kindly unsub from this thread-you've been warned OP
Aren't you the same guy that said;

"Honestly this is over my head now, thought maybe I could help but def over my paygrade here. I am assuming you're only going to trench in the new service and you'll hire the termination? Good luck sparky"
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  #26  
Old 02-01-2014, 01:44 AM
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unkownfl unkownfl is offline
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I'm glad it sounds good to you however it is obvious this guy is talking out his rear at this point. I've already said my piece so I will kindly unsub from this thread-you've been warned OP
Please enlighten me... Everything I posted is clearly watered down from an engineering standpoint. I have been providing services for utility companies for the last ten years. I have certifications in URD UCD OH. I've worked almost every hurricane since Charley in FL for FPL, Progress Energy, Duke Energy, LCEC, OUC, and Winter Park Electric. I have never seen a secondary service over 500ft. I've installed and repaired almost every type of electrical cable including paper and lead primary. I've climbed wooden poles worked off baker boards, hot sticked primary off hooks. I'm not saying by any means I know everything there is about electric. I'm not Zeus. I will say there is more efficient ways of running a service for 2 homes than trying to run a 2000ft run of 500mcm copper TPLX. I'd bet if I put the super beast on it would be under 100 volts.

Here a link to almost 2 years ago I posted when I sold my business read post #8
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=380201
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  #27  
Old 02-01-2014, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by unkownfl View Post
Please enlighten me... Everything I posted is clearly watered down from an engineering standpoint. I have been providing services for utility companies for the last ten years. I have certifications in URD UCD OH. I've worked almost every hurricane since Charley in FL for FPL, Progress Energy, Duke Energy, LCEC, OUC, and Winter Park Electric. I have never seen a secondary service over 500ft. I've installed and repaired almost every type of electrical cable including paper and lead primary. I've climbed wooden poles worked off baker boards, hot sticked primary off hooks. I'm not saying by any means I know everything there is about electric. I'm not Zeus. I will say there is more efficient ways of running a service for 2 homes than trying to run a 2000ft run of 500mcm copper TPLX. I'd bet if I put the super beast on it would be under 100 volts.

Here a link to almost 2 years ago I posted when I sold my business read post #8
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=380201
You're a lineman not a narrow back, I can tell.
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  #28  
Old 02-01-2014, 01:52 AM
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You're a lineman not a narrow back, I can tell.
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Sort of. I push crews now. Hence why I'm on lawnsite a lot. You?
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  #29  
Old 02-01-2014, 01:57 AM
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Sort of. I push crews now. Hence why I'm on lawnsite a lot. You?
You on here much http://powerlineman.com that's not the forum link.

I have buddies that are linemen.

I have been around though
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  #30  
Old 02-01-2014, 02:06 AM
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unkownfl unkownfl is offline
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You on here much http://powerlineman.com that's not the forum link.

I have buddies that are linemen.
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No. I hate my job to be honest. I live out of a suit case. I don't ever want to read about the crap. I already have a ton of spec books behind my seat right now. To much contractor vs utility, union vs non union debating. I debated even posting on this thread. I just didn't want to see someone order 30k in cable to power 2 houses and a garage.

You ever seen a 2000ft run of tplx copper secondary? We have tuggers and I've pulled a run of 3 phase 15kv copper 750 kcmil manhole to manhole 600ft with a line truck and it barely got it done.
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