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  #11  
Old 02-20-2014, 08:23 AM
curtislawncare curtislawncare is offline
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There are many businesses who cannot or just will not do what it takes to be competitive that the threat they pose via shear numbers is nullified.

People have limited mental and physical resources at their disposal so that many of them fail to prioritize what it takes to compete with other website owners -they're just too busy with other things in their lives. If the number of competitors increase then the small and minute things it takes to have a successfully promoted website will mean even more and require even more effort from people who refuse to do even the smallest things, as tony says.
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  #12  
Old 02-20-2014, 01:21 PM
PaperCutter PaperCutter is online now
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Originally Posted by mdvaden View Post
. It's indisputable, that in all this, nobody knows exactly what Google, etc., will do.

.
yes and no. Google became a verb because they were better than the competition at returning the most relevant results. If they continue to do that, they'll continue to hold market share. So I think it's worth considering that the best way to rank well is not via a bunch of black hat or gray hat crap, but by being the most relevant result for a given term. And using multiple means of getting ranked is the way to go. I just helped a writer out on an article she's doing for a major national retailer, in exchange for follow links off their main site. They have more Google juice than I do, so I'm happy to avail myself of some.
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  #13  
Old 02-20-2014, 03:35 PM
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mdvaden mdvaden is online now
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Originally Posted by curtislawncare View Post
There are many businesses who cannot or just will not do what it takes to be competitive that the threat they pose via shear numbers is nullified.

It's true some don't do what it takes. And depends on the city.

In a metro area like Portland, there's always enough trying and doing enough that nullification never enters the picture.

And during a particular year, say this 2014, most existing will maintain their levels of effort or ignoring ... while even more websites are made and more domain names appear. I'm sure there's plenty enough doing something, that even a high ranking Lewis Landscape would not consider 50 to 70 plus websites of some concern. And that's why he's diligent.


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Originally Posted by PaperCutter View Post
yes and no. Google became a verb because they were better than the competition at returning the most relevant results. If they continue to do that, they'll continue to hold market share. So I think it's worth considering that the best way to rank well is not via a bunch of black hat or gray hat crap, but by being the most relevant result for a given term. And using multiple means of getting ranked is the way to go. I just helped a writer out on an article she's doing for a major national retailer, in exchange for follow links off their main site. They have more Google juice than I do, so I'm happy to avail myself of some.
Yes, for the fact Google wants to earn ad revenue, and crank out some pretty decent search results.

The content thing seems more relevant for a slice of the pie. For some things, they give great search results. But for commercial sites, especially those who load their sites with good information, I don't see the return favor and pat on the back anymore. I've seen a lot of landscape and tree sites, and others, that get no credit for better content.

Other sites do. So it's hit and miss.

My own Hyperion page for the world's tallest tree, a coast redwood, is a sterling example. Google puts Wikipedia at the top of the heap, instantly giving credit as an "authority", but their article is thread bare. I think my page has 100 times more text and photos, but does not get the same attention from Google.

I do at least get that one on the first page of results though.
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Last edited by mdvaden; 02-20-2014 at 03:42 PM.
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  #14  
Old 02-21-2014, 10:30 AM
Joe Shooner Joe Shooner is offline
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Disclaimer: a lot of my business is old-school advertising.

That said, the original poster makes an important point, which I think is getting missed here: it's expensive (and possibly increasingly expensive) to constantly be working toward the top position. Though high rankings will almost certainly result in additional business, it's also easy to get single-minded about it and think that your advertising is going great because you have good rankings.

The potential problem arises because a) due to the expense involved, striving for search rankings can dominate your marketing budget and b) if google makes changes to their algorithms, it's possible that your results would suddenly nosedive off the first page. So the danger is that a contractor might have the proverbial rug yanked out from under them, and if you're marketing budget is only aimed at search rankings, you don't have as much to fall back on.

As a parallel, it's like a lot of landscapers during the housing boom who got more work than they could handle from a couple of builders. Or a commercial landscaper who gets a huge percentage of work from one property mgmt company. It's great while it's great, but it's also useful to be diversified, wether it's client base or marketing efforts.
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  #15  
Old 02-21-2014, 05:12 PM
PaperCutter PaperCutter is online now
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Originally Posted by Joe Shooner View Post
That said, the original poster makes an important point, which I think is getting missed here: it's expensive (and possibly increasingly expensive) to constantly be working toward the top position.
Depends on how you're trying to achieve it. Throughout all the algo updates, Google has favored original, quality content. If you have the ability to write and create content, the cost is in time. I'm having a harder and harder time making that time in my schedule so content creation is in my new design assistant's job description.

I recently fell off page one for an important search term but I know what I need to do to get back. Give it a week or two and I'm back where I need to be, with no money spent.
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  #16  
Old 02-21-2014, 09:16 PM
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mdvaden mdvaden is online now
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Originally Posted by PaperCutter View Post
Depends on how you're trying to achieve it. Throughout all the algo updates, Google has favored original, quality content. If you have the ability to write and create content, the cost is in time. I'm having a harder and harder time making that time in my schedule so content creation is in my new design assistant's job description.

I recently fell off page one for an important search term but I know what I need to do to get back. Give it a week or two and I'm back where I need to be, with no money spent.

That may leave a question on why my Hyperion redwood page recently mentioned, with the most original content for it, does so-so with Google. But my safe and toxic woods for pet birds page does pretty darn good, but is not giant on the original content part. It's refined, but I'm not sure if the word count and order would seem highly original.

I think links may still have the more value and content a little value.
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  #17  
Old 02-21-2014, 09:23 PM
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mdvaden mdvaden is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shooner View Post
Disclaimer: a lot of my business is old-school advertising.

That said, the original poster makes an important point, which I think is getting missed here: it's expensive (and possibly increasingly expensive) to constantly be working toward the top position. Though high rankings will almost certainly result in additional business, it's also easy to get single-minded about it and think that your advertising is going great because you have good rankings.
I think you may be the most onj-track with the vision and implied message of the OP.

Its not that someone can't good good work from SEO and search engine rankings. But the OP is geared toward other aspects. A few being those who become enslaved due to high dependency on great internet results they need. Or those discard other forms of advertising based on a false impression of internet potential (sort of like those who ran to the Gold Rush only to find a limited resource, and expecting riches or anybody and everybody).
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  #18  
Old 02-21-2014, 09:36 PM
whiffyspark whiffyspark is online now
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Originally Posted by mdvaden View Post
I think you may be the most onj-track with the vision and implied message of the OP.

Its not that someone can't good good work from SEO and search engine rankings. But the OP is geared toward other aspects. A few being those who become enslaved due to high dependency on great internet results they need. Or those discard other forms of advertising based on a false impression of internet potential (sort of like those who ran to the Gold Rush only to find a limited resource, and expecting riches or anybody and everybody).
Pm jimlewis and ask him his opinion about marketing. He is in your area.

Do I believe everything everyone says? No. But he believes/claims it makes a huge difference
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  #19  
Old 02-21-2014, 09:50 PM
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headz77 headz77 is offline
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Originally Posted by mdvaden View Post
That may leave a question on why my Hyperion redwood page recently mentioned, with the most original content for it, does so-so with Google. But my safe and toxic woods for pet birds page does pretty darn good, but is not giant on the original content part. It's refined, but I'm not sure if the word count and order would seem highly original.

I think links may still have the more value and content a little value.
Yep- links still matter A LOT.

Have you ever considered moving your Redwood stuff to it's own domain? I used your site for planning my last trip there and found it to be the most useful site around. Having that stuff on your business site sends a confusing signal- both to the bots and users. This is just my opinion, but I think your Redwoods info is gold (and could probably generate a ton of traffic and revenue done correctly).
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  #20  
Old 02-21-2014, 09:58 PM
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mdvaden mdvaden is online now
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Originally Posted by whiffyspark View Post
Pm jimlewis and ask him his opinion about marketing. He is in your area.

Do I believe everything everyone says? No. But he believes/claims it makes a huge difference
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Unless you missed my comment regarding him earlier, I'm guessing you mean about non-internet marketing.

Is that correct?
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