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  #11  
Old 02-23-2014, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygreek View Post
If the new SEO guys added your Meta Keywords tags, my confidence level just sunk. Sorry. Some members of Lawnsite were still in kindergarten when they were last used by the engines. In your case, and as you'll see when I get to the issues of keyword spamming, they can only do you more harm than good, as they are used to identify sites as such. Now, you may get a response of "Hey, adding the Meta Keywords can't hurt, so we did it." but that would be wrong. It would also be a waste of your money as they could be doing other things than that. Adding the tag is nothing more than "look what we did" filler and invoice padding.


Just checked out your site. When you say "the homepage is totally arranged differently now", would you mind explaining? I have some serious concerns, but would prefer to know what you've done to the site and what they've changed. My knee-jerk reaction is that I'm looking at the issues Google seems to see with your site. #4 on Bing, Page 7 on Google, for the same, big dog term, is definitely indicative of a problem. To me, it could just as easily be a spam site. From the link names, to the duplicate content pages, to the 63 times "Oviedo" is used on the "Oviedo Lawn Care" page (which really isn't an Oviedo lawn care page).

For example, take your very first nav menu link, the aforementioned "Oviedo Lawn Care" page. Instead of getting what any visitor would assume (a page about your lawn care service in Oviedo), we're presented with a contact form. To say it's a "thin" page of content is an understatement but, when you factor in all of the nav link wording/keyword-spamming, the word "Oviedo" appears 36 times on the page (do a "view source" and word search and you'll understand), yet only has 3.8% content to code, and has an astonishing 74 server requests(!) and two dozen uses of javascript. (a modern, updated site would eliminate the majority of images/scripts) There are also, somehow, 75 images on that page? I'm actually glad to see the alt tag hasn't been utilized for them. On your site's home page, "Oviedo" appears a robust 63 times.

Other usability issues: your nav menu links disappear on hover, as well as one doesn't display at all. On some pages, your Google+ link covers a nav menu link. The blog link is dead/not loading.

Personally, my first recommendation, before throwing dollars after SEO, would be to redesign/organize the site, and have one site that covers both desktop and mobile, not as it is now, via www.yardworks and m.oviedoyardworks. As it currently exists, I just don't think it's set up to engage and convert any traffic from the increased rank your site may see. If you look at your Analytics, what is your bounce rate, page visits, and time spent on site telling you? What is it telling your SEO guys?
Thank you for your input. I really appreciate what you have put forth so far. I just got home and read through real quick. I will reread your post and look at what you are stating major problems and send a email requesting info on why and changes you have suggested. I can make some changes myself on the keyword stuffing and rewriting content.

I know meta's are not suppose to be so important anymore from reading your post here...I am pretty sure I had read that anyway. I am still trying to fumble my way through this and trusting those who are specifically suppose to be experts.

In terms of the content being duplicated. Google does not seem to not mind that from what I have seen. The Lake Mary Sod , Lake Mary Lawn Care pages and Heathrow Lawn and Heathrow Sod pages where ranking well I thought. Just not the homepage.

Here is what I am talking about...this is one the guys who has duplicate pages of essentially the same content....meta's .....lots of stuff I have read that is wrong on here...yet he ranks often first page on Google. Can you help explain why it is considered wrong but he is ranking well? Looking for insight. Lot of the content was written by the previous company.

This guy ranks very often in number one organic spot and is doing so many things wrong from what Little I see! Help

http://www.mrsunscape.com/site-map.html
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  #12  
Old 02-23-2014, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygreek View Post
If the new SEO guys added your Meta Keywords tags, my confidence level just sunk. Sorry. Some members of Lawnsite were still in kindergarten when they were last used by the engines. In your case, and as you'll see when I get to the issues of keyword spamming, they can only do you more harm than good, as they are used to identify sites as such. Now, you may get a response of "Hey, adding the Meta Keywords can't hurt, so we did it." but that would be wrong. It would also be a waste of your money as they could be doing other things than that. Adding the tag is nothing more than "look what we did" filler and invoice padding.
Got it...thank you I will advice him to remove the Meta Tags

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygreek View Post
Just checked out your site. When you say "the homepage is totally arranged differently now", would you mind explaining? I have some serious concerns, but would prefer to know what you've done to the site and what they've changed. My knee-jerk reaction is that I'm looking at the issues Google seems to see with your site. #4 on Bing, Page 7 on Google, for the same, big dog term, is definitely indicative of a problem. To me, it could just as easily be a spam site. From the link names, to the duplicate content pages, to the 63 times "Oviedo" is used on the "Oviedo Lawn Care" page (which really isn't an Oviedo lawn care page).
So let me be clear on what you are saying . You feel the reason I rank great on Bing/Yahoo but horrible on Google is because of the over use of the word "Oviedo" . I should clean it up? Limit it to how many times per 100? I think I read somewhere like no more than 10% of total word count. Is that accurate?

Also he just added all the links on the home page. He told me it was to help! I am really concerned now as I am trusting him to help get this site back to page one of google like before.
I found him by searching Orlando SEO company and a couple other terms. He pulls first page organically so I figured he must know his stuff. The car wash page he does for my town pulls first page organically ....figured I had a winner....but I know you know your stuff more than most Tony from reading your post on her. So if you do not mind I would appreciate your continued support even if it is harsh to hear I would rather hear it and get the results I am hoping for.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygreek View Post
For example, take your very first nav menu link, the aforementioned "Oviedo Lawn Care" page. Instead of getting what any visitor would assume (a page about your lawn care service in Oviedo), we're presented with a contact form.
I was told that having the "contact form" was good as it was a "call to action" ...not by the current guy but the previous SEO people...so I am learning I have been getting lots of bad advice I think


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygreek View Post
To say it's a "thin" page of content is an understatement but, when you factor in all of the nav link wording/keyword-spamming, the word "Oviedo" appears 36 times on the page (do a "view source" and word search and you'll understand), yet only has 3.8% content to code, and has an astonishing 74 server requests(!) and two dozen uses of javascript. (a modern, updated site would eliminate the majority of images/scripts) There are also, somehow, 75 images on that page? I'm actually glad to see the alt tag hasn't been utilized for them. On your site's home page, "Oviedo" appears a robust 63 times.
So is this because of the template format? I am obviously not writting any java . It is scary you mention the Alt tag because that was mentioned that he had tried to I think on his email of what he had completed so far. Which means he was apparently trying to do another thing you would not recommend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygreek View Post

Other usability issues: your nav menu links disappear on hover, as well as one doesn't display at all. On some pages, your Google+ link covers a nav menu link. The blog link is dead/not loading.

Personally, my first recommendation, before throwing dollars after SEO, would be to redesign/organize the site, and have one site that covers both desktop and mobile, not as it is now, via www.yardworks and m.oviedoyardworks. As it currently exists, I just don't think it's set up to engage and convert any traffic from the increased rank your site may see. If you look at your Analytics, what is your bounce rate, page visits, and time spent on site telling you? What is it telling your SEO guys?
I can fix the display on the hover I am pretty sure. I can also fix the Google Plus link. I have a call in about the blog being dead to the hosting company.

I am still learning to understand webmaster tools for analytics....so hang in there with me.
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"the art of survival is a story that never ends"

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If you aspire to a six-figure income, don't get advice from someone making $18,000 a year!
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  #13  
Old 02-23-2014, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landscape Poet View Post
In terms of the content being duplicated. Google does not seem to not mind that from what I have seen. The Lake Mary Sod , Lake Mary Lawn Care pages and Heathrow Lawn and Heathrow Sod pages where ranking well I thought. Just not the homepage.
Where were they ranking when you checked? Lake Mary Sod is page 2. Lake Mary Lawn Care is at the bottom of page 5. If you saw an early, high rank, that's not uncommon. What is common is a quick settling out or justifiable equilibrium.

Quote:
Here is what I am talking about...this is one the guys who has duplicate pages of essentially the same content....meta's .....lots of stuff I have read that is wrong on here...yet he ranks often first page on Google. Can you help explain why it is considered wrong but he is ranking well? Looking for insight. Lot of the content was written by the previous company.

This guy ranks very often in number one organic spot and is doing so many things wrong from what Little I see! Help

http://www.mrsunscape.com/site-map.html
I see he ranks fine for some, not so for others. There are so many factors at play, that it would take some time to form a solid opinion. I can say that his site exhibits what is wrong with Google as much as it does with the tacticians and what they know they can get away with. Here's the thing with SEO. You can do things three ways: White Hat, Grey Hat, and Black Hat. MrSunscape, on the surface, is clearly a hard Grey Hat, and I would guess, leans Black (making the assumption if they produced that much garbage, they've probably gone a bit further). I can rank you #1 using a variety of methods. If you invest time and money in something that is clearly wrong, artificially propping you up, Google, at some point, will make that all for naught. So, the question becomes, "What is your risk tolerance?".

I don't go in to Black Hat methods, occasionally dipping in to Grey. For me, I prefer to see peoples' sites exist, day to day, rather than to wake up and be hammered because shortcuts were deemed necessary.
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  #14  
Old 02-23-2014, 11:44 PM
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tonygreek tonygreek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landscape Poet View Post
Got it...thank you I will advice him to remove the Meta Tags
The warning sign is that they did it in the first place. That they don't work is SEO 101. Or SEO Pre-K.

Quote:
So let me be clear on what you are saying . You feel the reason I rank great on Bing/Yahoo but horrible on Google is because of the over use of the word "Oviedo" . I should clean it up? Limit it to how many times per 100? I think I read somewhere like no more than 10% of total word count. Is that accurate?
No. I'm making an educated guess, based on a quick run through. Your SEO guys should have, before starting any work, done a full on/off-site audit. What are they telling you is the reason? My assumption, as lofty as it may be, is that they should be able to give a "with reasonable certainty" answer.

As for keyword density, I fall in line with the vast majority who say it doesn't matter, just don't overdo it. Seriously, write naturally and pair up keywords where/when it makes sense. It's become cliche, but it holds true.

Quote:
Also he just added all the links on the home page. He told me it was to help! I am really concerned now as I am trusting him to help get this site back to page one of google like before.
Did he say anything about usability and conversion, or is he a hired gun intending only to prop up rank? You now have 12 "main" links. What happens if you want to rank for 6 other cities? Do you then end up with having 42 main nav links? By comparison, I have a lot of high-ranking sites. Not one of those local, lawn & landscape sites uses the naming convention yours does. Exactly zero have [keyword(s) city] as a main nav link name. In fact, one of my sites ranks anywhere from #1-5, via many keywords and city name combinations, for a region of 3.5mm people. The main nav menu consists of wording that is similar to this: Services | About | Blog | Contact | Referrals. That's the entire depth of the menu, but I cover a major city, a mid-major, and dozens of towns in and around. The site looks intuitive, because it is, and is easy to navigate, because it is. For these reasons, it converts very well. The site's strength is in it's "natural" depth. I follow the same strategy for dozens of sites.

Quote:
I found him by searching Orlando SEO company and a couple other terms. He pulls first page organically so I figured he must know his stuff.
"Organic" rankings come in those various shades of gray. It may seem innocuous, it may seem like he's just covering his bases, but you couldn't go up to a single, well-regarded online marketing expert and say, "Hey, the first thing my new SEO guy did was add Meta Keywords. Pretty great, right?" Their answer will begin with, "No.".

Quote:
I was told that having the "contact form" was good as it was a "call to action" ...not by the current guy but the previous SEO people...so I am learning I have been getting lots of bad advice I think
When I clicked on your Oviedo Lawn Care link, I was going straight to a page that had the keywords and just a contact form as the centerpiece. There was no other content. I'm not seeing it now, so I'm guessing it's been changed?

Contact forms are great. I have them on almost every single page of every site I have. They convert. Yours aren't providing any call to action. They're just generic contact forms that say "Contact Us".


Quote:
So is this because of the template format? I am obviously not writting any java . It is scary you mention the Alt tag because that was mentioned that he had tried to I think on his email of what he had completed so far. Which means he was apparently trying to do another thing you would not recommend.
Alt tags on images are great. I was pointing out that, given the keyword stuffing, that it was probably a good thing it wasn't attempted on those. 65 uses of Oviedo is enough. If you decided to make use of another 75 possible alt tags, you've really fallen off the path. Alt tags exist for a reason and should be used intelligently. Plus, as I look closer, they seem to mostly be clear spacer .gif images. That's pre-CSS technology for helping to lay out sites.
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  #15  
Old 02-26-2014, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygreek View Post


I see he ranks fine for some, not so for others. There are so many factors at play, that it would take some time to form a solid opinion. I can say that his site exhibits what is wrong with Google as much as it does with the tacticians and what they know they can get away with. Here's the thing with SEO. You can do things three ways: White Hat, Grey Hat, and Black Hat. MrSunscape, on the surface, is clearly a hard Grey Hat, and I would guess, leans Black (making the assumption if they produced that much garbage, they've probably gone a bit further). I can rank you #1 using a variety of methods. If you invest time and money in something that is clearly wrong, artificially propping you up, Google, at some point, will make that all for naught. So, the question becomes, "What is your risk tolerance?".

I don't go in to Black Hat methods, occasionally dipping in to Grey. For me, I prefer to see peoples' sites exist, day to day, rather than to wake up and be hammered because shortcuts were deemed necessary.
I am not sure if this is "Black Hat" or not but he actually has another site built real similar but different. For example the Mr. Sunscape does not rank first page organically for Oviedo Lawn Maintenance ......but his other site does http://www.orlandolawnservice.net/se...n-service.html

I am still in the process and going through and cleaning up keywords from being overwhelming etc Tony. I will P.M you when I think I have did a good job if you do not mind. I appreciate your help.
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If you aspire to a six-figure income, don't get advice from someone making $18,000 a year!
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  #16  
Old 02-26-2014, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygreek View Post
Where were they ranking when you checked? Lake Mary Sod is page 2. Lake Mary Lawn Care is at the bottom of page 5. If you saw an early, high rank, that's not uncommon. What is common is a quick settling out or justifiable equilibrium.
I am sorry I think I mis typed . Heathrow - for "Heathrow Sod Installation" both my Heathrow Sod page comes up as well as the Heathrow Lawn page on the first page organically.

I did check this immediately after following your advice on keyword stuffing on those pages. I toned it way down. I think Heathrow on the Sod installation page is now used about 10 times per 1000 words.
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"the art of survival is a story that never ends"

Providing Lawn Services, Landscape Installations and Solutions and Sod Services in the Oviedo Florida Market

If you aspire to a six-figure income, don't get advice from someone making $18,000 a year!
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  #17  
Old 02-27-2014, 09:52 PM
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tonygreek tonygreek is offline
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Attracting the engines is one thing, but you still need to engage and sell your customers.

"What about Empire Zoysia for my Heathrow FL lawn?" has an unnatural, spammy vibe to it. It's not hard to work in localized content, but this is the kind of use that might very well turn off visitors. Don't forget...for the same reason that long tail keywords work, sentences like that might not. By this, I mean searchers are only getting more sophisticated.
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  #18  
Old 03-03-2014, 07:37 PM
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Landscape Poet Landscape Poet is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygreek View Post
Attracting the engines is one thing, but you still need to engage and sell your customers.

"What about Empire Zoysia for my Heathrow FL lawn?" has an unnatural, spammy vibe to it. It's not hard to work in localized content, but this is the kind of use that might very well turn off visitors. Don't forget...for the same reason that long tail keywords work, sentences like that might not. By this, I mean searchers are only getting more sophisticated.
I have been slowly making changes as I can. Apparently your suggestions have started to help already.

For example if you just type "lawn maintenance" in the browser I pull in the first organic.


"lawn maintenance service" third organic spot


"Oviedo lawn maintenance service" I am not on the first page for my site organically but I am in places map on there!

"Lawn Care" First page organically and on google places as well on first page.

"Heathrow Lawn" Fell - bottom of the second page?

"Heathrow Lawn Service" - I own the two bottom listing of page two.

Heathrow Sod - top of second page

"Lake Mary Sod" 2nd middle of page.


.....thanks for your help Tony. If you do not mind I will continue to hit you up for pointers as I make progress. I am very happy with the results of your suggestions so far.
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If you aspire to a six-figure income, don't get advice from someone making $18,000 a year!
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