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  #71  
Old 03-17-2014, 08:22 AM
Bryan27 Bryan27 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Memphis, TN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPendagast View Post
That's not accurate and you know it.

Lowballing is done frequently. Business does exist outside of landscaping.
Some of us have taken more than just business 101.
It does get more complicated, that is if you can comprehend more/additional information.
Otherwise just stick to the basics.

---Snip---

lower price does not = the other guy is messed up.

Do a self check, frequently, it could be you.

Business outside the world of lawn and landscaping is my domain, but the topic is lawn and landscaping...so Walmart an Home Depot are irrelevant to the conversation.

A lowballer isn't someone who beats you by a grand on a $30k contract, the lowballer is the one who prices work out of desperation and will bid $12k on the contract everyone else is 30k on. Then he figures out he's losing money, defaults on the contract, the customer is pizzed off and the industry gets a bad name. Or the guy running around with no business license, no insurance, no payroll taxes because he's paying his employees cash, and he can cut a $40 lawn for half price because of it.

If you want to stick around and defend the relative merits of lowballing, be my guest. You'll have a hard time convincing me that Walmart is of benefit to anything other than Walmart itself.
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  #72  
Old 03-17-2014, 03:19 PM
wannaquitmydayjob wannaquitmydayjob is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 19
"If you want to stick around and defend the relative merits of lowballing, be my guest. You'll have a hard time convincing me that Walmart is of benefit to anything other than Walmart itself. ".... The lowballer is only trying to benefit himself, but I would have to disagree with "giving the industry" a bad name... I have found there are a lot of customers out there that are committed to their (NOT THEY'RE) Lawn service providers and the promise of saving a few bucks doesn't interest them in the least...one of the points that have been made repeatedly is PROFESSIONALISM. Looking and performing the part makes elderly (like many of my customers) customers feel safer and more confident that they get what they pay for and don't have to look over their shoulder to see if someone is casing the house...
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  #73  
Old 03-17-2014, 04:53 PM
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TPendagast TPendagast is offline
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wasilla, AK
Posts: 3,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan27 View Post
Business outside the world of lawn and landscaping is my domain, but the topic is lawn and landscaping...so Walmart an Home Depot are irrelevant to the conversation.

A lowballer isn't someone who beats you by a grand on a $30k contract, the lowballer is the one who prices work out of desperation and will bid $12k on the contract everyone else is 30k on. Then he figures out he's losing money, defaults on the contract, the customer is pizzed off and the industry gets a bad name. Or the guy running around with no business license, no insurance, no payroll taxes because he's paying his employees cash, and he can cut a $40 lawn for half price because of it.

If you want to stick around and defend the relative merits of lowballing, be my guest. You'll have a hard time convincing me that Walmart is of benefit to anything other than Walmart itself.
No one said it was a benefit.

IT IS a business strategy and you can assign whatever incorrect definition you want to a term, it doesn't make it accurate.

Not everyone who lowballs "doesn't know what they are doing".

some of them know very well what they are doing, and are doing it deliberately.

Walmart is a good example of that, and despite all the poo poo of how much they suck are is very viable and successful business.

Brickman follows a very similar business model at least when it comes to pricing tactics, and Lowballs by text book definition, not lawn site definition, quite frequently.

I have seen many other large, but regional companies follow suit.
It is common practice for many to say "$25 to mow the lawn"
oh? you wanted it TRIMMED too?
My goodness that's $50!
what you want to cancel?
Well there is this cancellation fee here you see and yak yak bla bla.

Ive seen it happen MANY times, in fact I've been taught it when working as an estimator/account manager for the bigger companies.

I'm not saying it's beneficial, or good or the champion of all things landscape.

I'm saying it can be a viable way of doing business, and not everyone who practices this method is a know nothing screwball who is in a desperate panic to get work, and I think in truth, there are just as many high priced guys on this site who don't really know what they are doing, as there are low priced guys.
So pricing strategy alone is not a barometer for business knowledge or success.
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  #74  
Old 03-17-2014, 06:04 PM
Bryan27 Bryan27 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by TPendagast View Post
No one said it was a benefit.

IT IS a business strategy and you can assign whatever incorrect definition you want to a term, it doesn't make it accurate.

Not everyone who lowballs "doesn't know what they are doing".

some of them know very well what they are doing, and are doing it deliberately.

Walmart is a good example of that, and despite all the poo poo of how much they suck are is very viable and successful business.

Brickman follows a very similar business model at least when it comes to pricing tactics, and Lowballs by text book definition, not lawn site definition, quite frequently.

I have seen many other large, but regional companies follow suit.
It is common practice for many to say "$25 to mow the lawn"
oh? you wanted it TRIMMED too?
My goodness that's $50!
what you want to cancel?
Well there is this cancellation fee here you see and yak yak bla bla.

Ive seen it happen MANY times, in fact I've been taught it when working as an estimator/account manager for the bigger companies.

I'm not saying it's beneficial, or good or the champion of all things landscape.

I'm saying it can be a viable way of doing business, and not everyone who practices this method is a know nothing screwball who is in a desperate panic to get work, and I think in truth, there are just as many high priced guys on this site who don't really know what they are doing, as there are low priced guys.
So pricing strategy alone is not a barometer for business knowledge or success.
Well, here is the dictionary definition of the word "lowball":
low∑ball [loh-bawl] Show IPA


noun

1.

Cards. a game of draw poker in which the player having the lowest-ranking hand wins the pot.

verb (used with object)

2.

to deliberately estimate a lower price for (a service or merchandise) than one intends to charge: to lowball the cost of a move.


3.

to give a false estimate or bid for.

verb (used without object)

4.

to engage in lowballing.

adjective

5.

engaged in or characteristic of lowballing: a lowball bid.


So, by DEFINITION it is a deceptive business practice. I'll give you that deception can be a business strategy, but beyond that, there is nothing good or endearing about the practice of lowballing. Someone who's business strategy is to lowball, very well may know exactly what they are doing, we call those people con men or scammers around here.

What do you call a person who's business is run with no insurance and pay no tax so they're able to charge half of what the legitimate businesses around them charge for the same work?
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  #75  
Old 03-17-2014, 06:59 PM
BossPlowMaster BossPlowMaster is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Oshkosh WI
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Most of you all are just ignorant a - holes who would rather insult each other and belittle each other than actually help the industry grow. How bout all of you that don't have any valuable input, get off the site and go get your hands dirty. I know why I joined lawnsite and that was to gain knowledge and pick some people's brains about different things.
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  #76  
Old 03-17-2014, 08:07 PM
ReddensLawnCare ReddensLawnCare is online now
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by BossPlowMaster View Post
Most of you all are just ignorant a - holes who would rather insult each other and belittle each other than actually help the industry grow. How bout all of you that don't have any valuable input, get off the site and go get your hands dirty. I know why I joined lawnsite and that was to gain knowledge and pick some people's brains about different things.
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How was that post valuable input? Just don't read if you don't want to. I agree we bash on here, but a lot of guys have nothing to do outside or the dirty that you mentioned is frozen. So chill. It's all good
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  #77  
Old 03-17-2014, 08:36 PM
Bryan27 Bryan27 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddensLawnCare View Post
How was that post valuable input? Just don't read if you don't want to. I agree we bash on here, but a lot of guys have nothing to do outside or the dirty that you mentioned is frozen. So chill. It's all good
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Yeah, I thought we were all being pretty respectful of each other. Asking someone to further explain their views by challenging them is a sign of respect in my book, maybe some don't take it that way?
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  #78  
Old 03-17-2014, 10:06 PM
Twinlakes Twinlakes is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Milledgeville, Ga.
Posts: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by BossPlowMaster View Post
Most of you all are just ignorant a - holes who would rather insult each other and belittle each other than actually help the industry grow. How bout all of you that don't have any valuable input, get off the site and go get your hands dirty. I know why I joined lawnsite and that was to gain knowledge and pick some people's brains about different things.
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The industry(in general) will grow/fail regardless of what's said here. It's the physical and economical actions that will dictate. Calling names, etc. Will do nothing more than invite the same type characters to the discussion.

If it gets to "deep" for you; it might be time to click elsewhere. Otherwise, sit back and enjoy the energy expended at no gain.
Thickskin will get you nothing, but somewhere in this biz.

Last edited by Twinlakes; 03-17-2014 at 10:10 PM.
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  #79  
Old 03-17-2014, 10:10 PM
Snyder's Lawn Inc's Avatar
Snyder's Lawn Inc Snyder's Lawn Inc is online now
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kirksville Mo
Posts: 3,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by BossPlowMaster View Post
Most of you all are just ignorant a - holes who would rather insult each other and belittle each other than actually help the industry grow. How bout all of you that don't have any valuable input, get off the site and go get your hands dirty. I know why I joined lawnsite and that was to gain knowledge and pick some people's brains about different things.
Posted via Mobile Device
Sorry if I made you mad But I was wanting to know what a 17 year old know and have a 100k business
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddensLawnCare View Post
How was that post valuable input? Just don't read if you don't want to. I agree we bash on here, but a lot of guys have nothing to do outside or the dirty that you mentioned is frozen. So chill. It's all good
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Ground is mud here and grass is still brown and Snow is still in the forecast
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan27 View Post
Yeah, I thought we were all being pretty respectful of each other. Asking someone to further explain their views by challenging them is a sign of respect in my book, maybe some don't take it that way?
All I was doing To see if he can explain to me how man lawns he has or atleast his company name so Look him up.
I wonder how he can joggle work and school to have 100k business
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  #80  
Old 03-17-2014, 10:12 PM
whiffyspark whiffyspark is online now
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Location: Chesapeake beach
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100k is not that much. 40 yards a week plus mulch and landscaping jobs.
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