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Old 05-01-2014, 10:01 AM
tj hall tj hall is offline
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I just spoke to a patio contractor, and his method is quit different than what im used to. He states that he does not use sand as part of his base, he lays the pavers directly on the sub base. He says it is more stable and prevents future problems? Any insight on this from the hardscapers?
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:39 AM
BossPlowMaster BossPlowMaster is offline
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Originally Posted by tj hall View Post
I just spoke to a patio contractor, and his method is quit different than what im used to. He states that he does not use sand as part of his base, he lays the pavers directly on the sub base. He says it is more stable and prevents future problems? Any insight on this from the hardscapers?
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Used to do it that way. Does cause settling and frost heaving if you're in cold climates.
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:54 AM
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DVS Hardscaper DVS Hardscaper is online now
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Originally Posted by tj hall View Post
I just spoke to a patio contractor, and his method is quit different than what im used to. He states that he does not use sand as part of his base, he lays the pavers directly on the sub base. He says it is more stable and prevents future problems? Any insight on this from the hardscapers?
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Ok since you are in the Baltimore area, I will respond briefly (as I have a lot to do today).

Also, I am glad to see that you are setting forth the effort to do some research.

Much of the Baltimore area has a fair amount of clay in the soil. With that said, you can not take any short cuts.

The paver patio MUST have an aggregate base. There are NO two ways about it. And for aggregate I mean a stone that in MD is referred to as "CR8". Some contractor will use CR6, but my company does not. I feel CR6 is too large in diameter and does not anchor the spikes in place as well as CR8.

The aggregate base should be NO LESS than 5-inches in depth, after compaction. And depending on the size of the contractors compactor, it should be compacted in lifts. So if it's a small compactor - then it should be compacted in 2" lifts. If its a large compactor, the lifts can be thicker.

After the excavation of the soil, but before the aggregate is spread - a layer of commercial grade geo-textile fabric must be put down. This will do a number of things. The first role it plays is it prevents the aggregate from inter-mixing with the sub soil. The second role it plays is it adds strength to the patio base (when properly installed).

After the filter fabric is installed, you then install the aggregate, compact, and level. Doing this correctly takes time.

We install two layers of fabric. We install the second layer OVER the aggregate. The second layer is not as critical as the first layer. But many years ago when we got into paver installation I made an observation on a patio installed by others which we had to repair, and I realized that the second layer of fabric over the gravel does play a role in a job well done.

Bedding sand should be screeded to a depth of 1-inch. This goes over the aggregate. The sand is what "INTERLOCKS" the pavers into place. If you have more than an inch of sand, then you are suspectible (spelling) to settlement. If you have less than 1 inch of sand, then you may not achieve a tight "interlock".

We use SnapEdge restraint to hold the outer perimeter(s) of pavers in place.

We use 10-inch GALVANIZED spikes, spaced 12-inches apart to hold the snapedge to the base. We do not use "common spikes". One man in the industry tells everyone to use common spikes because he thinks the rust will help hold them in the ground. Well, if you use a CR8 base and if it's properly compacted - then the galvanized spikes will perform beautifully, problem free. And this comes from 18 years of dedicated paver installation.

We then will brush polymeric sand in the paver joints. For poly sand to work as intended, it must be applied and watered exactly as the instructions on the bag say. Poly sand is not a do or die ingredient. Pavers have been around for decades long before poly sand was ever thought of. But we do use it and I do recommend it.
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Old 05-01-2014, 11:15 AM
tj hall tj hall is offline
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Thank you very much! That was a detailed response, and is greatly appreciated. I do strictly softscapes for now, so if anyon can refer me to a reputable hardscaper in the Baltimore-Annapolis area it would be greatly appreciated. It will ruin my reputation dealing with short-cutters. Again, many thanks for the responses! I will post some of my work once i figure out how to attach photos.
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Old 05-01-2014, 11:45 PM
Krafty Krafty is online now
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Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post
Ok since you are in the Baltimore area, I will respond briefly (as I have a lot to do today).

Also, I am glad to see that you are setting forth the effort to do some research.

Much of the Baltimore area has a fair amount of clay in the soil. With that said, you can not take any short cuts.

The paver patio MUST have an aggregate base. There are NO two ways about it. And for aggregate I mean a stone that in MD is referred to as "CR8". Some contractor will use CR6, but my company does not. I feel CR6 is too large in diameter and does not anchor the spikes in place as well as CR8.

The aggregate base should be NO LESS than 5-inches in depth, after compaction. And depending on the size of the contractors compactor, it should be compacted in lifts. So if it's a small compactor - then it should be compacted in 2" lifts. If its a large compactor, the lifts can be thicker.

After the excavation of the soil, but before the aggregate is spread - a layer of commercial grade geo-textile fabric must be put down. This will do a number of things. The first role it plays is it prevents the aggregate from inter-mixing with the sub soil. The second role it plays is it adds strength to the patio base (when properly installed).

After the filter fabric is installed, you then install the aggregate, compact, and level. Doing this correctly takes time.

We install two layers of fabric. We install the second layer OVER the aggregate. The second layer is not as critical as the first layer. But many years ago when we got into paver installation I made an observation on a patio installed by others which we had to repair, and I realized that the second layer of fabric over the gravel does play a role in a job well done.

Bedding sand should be screeded to a depth of 1-inch. This goes over the aggregate. The sand is what "INTERLOCKS" the pavers into place. If you have more than an inch of sand, then you are suspectible (spelling) to settlement. If you have less than 1 inch of sand, then you may not achieve a tight "interlock".

We use SnapEdge restraint to hold the outer perimeter(s) of pavers in place.

We use 10-inch GALVANIZED spikes, spaced 12-inches apart to hold the snapedge to the base. We do not use "common spikes". One man in the industry tells everyone to use common spikes because he thinks the rust will help hold them in the ground. Well, if you use a CR8 base and if it's properly compacted - then the galvanized spikes will perform beautifully, problem free. And this comes from 18 years of dedicated paver installation.

We then will brush polymeric sand in the paver joints. For poly sand to work as intended, it must be applied and watered exactly as the instructions on the bag say. Poly sand is not a do or die ingredient. Pavers have been around for decades long before poly sand was ever thought of. But we do use it and I do recommend it.
That was brief?? Lol
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Old 05-01-2014, 11:50 PM
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DVS Hardscaper DVS Hardscaper is online now
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That was brief?? Lol
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I know! No wonder why the payroll hasn't been done yet today!


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__________________
"It's You vs. You"

"People Throw Rocks At Things That Shine"


My Equipment Brag List:

-1 CAT hat
-16 pairs of Hanes socks (the Heavy Duty model), many with holes.
-12 pairs of underwear, ranging from Joe Boxers to Jockey, many are in need of replacement. (no more photo requests please)
-hundreds of t-shirts. Some w/ grease stains, some torn & tattered.
-7 pairs of jeans, ranging from Levis to Polo to GAP. 1/2 of them have holes in 'em.
-1 belt
-1 pair of old worn out Nike shoes.
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:47 AM
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zedosix zedosix is offline
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One note about common nails, the rust may hold them in during summer months, but the frost will grab the nail and push upwards, rendering the snap edge useless after a few years.
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:28 AM
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alldayrj alldayrj is offline
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He probably stopped using sand since its $30/yd!
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:42 AM
Krafty Krafty is online now
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He probably stopped using sand since its $30/yd!
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$30 a yard?? I am glad I don't live by you!
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