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  #21  
Old 06-23-2014, 03:34 PM
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TPendagast TPendagast is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allagashpm View Post
Kids around here are in school until june depending on the winter we had. Then they go back end of august. They will want to go to the beach and on their families vacation. Some will want to do an off season basketball camp. They may be enticed by the pay but they will be late, not show up etc. Your workmans comp and other insurances will be very expensive. Most people actually would rather have a professional if they are paying the same price. You can expand and grow but alter the plan and I would leave the teenagers out of it
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^ this.

And what happens if the teenagers own mowers break?

Also remember daddy's lawn mower isn't commercial quality.
youll have a lot of issues maintaining a group of kids who, if they want to work, actually CAN because daddy's more done broke down.

All you need is one kid to get hurt doing the work and your world is all upside down.

The gubber-ment isn't going to like you 1099in' teens.
sand that's really the only way to get around the fact that "teens" cant use power equipment legally, they can work for themselves, but not for you.

to work for themselves and BE 1099'd, they need to have their own insurance... know any kids that are going to pay the bill?

Most insurance companies want a chunk-a money upfront to initiate a policy too. Where are the kids getting that from?
  #22  
Old 06-23-2014, 04:04 PM
larryinalabama larryinalabama is offline
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Id stick with my 17 accounts, and grow from there.

It take the average millionaire over 25 years to get there, there is very few exceptions.
  #23  
Old 06-23-2014, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Locqus View Post
^^ I thought Tom Cruise came out on top in that one lol
He did get a ride on the train
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  #24  
Old 06-23-2014, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by lawnandorder2013 View Post
Thank you so much for your responses. They are super helpful and give me some very important points to consider. However, when I started this thread late last night, I left out some important details about the business model. Here are a few points of clarification:

1. This business would be more or less "under the table", just as a kid mowing his or her neighbor's lawn would not pay taxes. I know that "legal stuff" will become a concern as the business grows, but much of it would surely be helped by the fact that this is not a direct boss-employee relationship. I don't know the specific legal details of this, but I could essentially sign a contract with the parents, stating that they are ultimately responsible for the worker in terms of legal stuff (many parents in this community are very hands-on, and would be thrilled to contribute in this way).

2. Each worker provides his or her own equipment, and is responsible for its transport and upkeep. Each worker will either have their own means of travelling between jobs (such as loading their mower into a van) or will only work within walking distance of their home. This policy seems harsh, but I do not think that it's unreasonable; they are making around $20 an hour, more money than the average teenager could dream of making at another job.

3. Employee retention is quite possible. I just graduated high school, and I know MANY people that would work for the business. Of course, upon realizing how tough the work is, many of them will decide not to do it. This job is not one that everyone could do. But I am confident that I will find a team of workers who is comfortable with more demanding work for better pay. For example, my little sister (who is a freshman in high school) just learned how to mow yesterday, and she mowed 5 lawns on that day!

4. If I, the leader of the business, do my job effectively, quality control should not be a huge issue. There are three reasons for this:
A. First of all, clients are quite forgiving, as long as I communicate well with them. For example, one time I simply forgot to mow a lawn (embarrassing), and I called the client as soon as I realized it, which was 5 days after I was supposed to mow it. I apologized profusely, took full responsibility, and offered to mow that day for half price. He was completely forgiving and even still paid full price.
B. I am in the process of writing a lawn care manual for my workers. It will tell them exactly what to do in great detail, and they will be expected to follow it exactly. Again, not just any teenager will be able to do this, but I am confident that a select few reliable workers will accept the greater demands for greater pay.
C. I have my family as a support cushion. My mom helps me manage the business and helps me pick up slack when I need to. She is even taking over the business for the autumn when I go off to college! Her, my brother, and my sister all love to mow.

4. This business will be rooted in the friendly relationship I have with each client. Some of my clients come outside to talk to me each time I'm there. They just love the idea of a young entrepreneur. One time when my mom was mowing a lawn (she mows when I need someone to, and she does it for charity), she started talking to a neighbor, and then another neighbor, and then another one. It was an odd social gathering. I believe that clients eat this social stuff up.
Forget my original suggestion. Your business model is seemingly not based in realty or any known sound business practices. I will save you the embarrassment of contacting score.org This organization really want to help people that are willing to help them self's.
easy-lift guy
  #25  
Old 06-23-2014, 04:39 PM
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1.) There is no "Under the table" in your business model.

2.) You would have to be a contractor, with your own insurance, and I have a feeling that it would be pretty pricey.

3.) Your starting to sound like a national....even brickman started out in the 30's as a small company and grew into a national contractor.

4.) Each individual will then have to have their own insurance underneath you. Their going to find it just as hard to find a carrier.

5.) During tax time, you'll have to give a 1099 out to each of the guys who do over 599.99 worth of business each year, by law, because technically they are a sub-contractor. The government is cracking down on these and the penalties are extremely stiff.

6.) When they screw up real bad, the liability comes down on you. You could loose everything, along with your mom and dad. I wouldn't even think of setting up anything like this without a corporation in place, a sole proprietorship won't cut it.

I thought you had a good idea, but it just got bad, real bad.




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  #26  
Old 06-23-2014, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by easy-lift guy View Post
Forget my original suggestion. Your business model is seemingly not based in realty or any known sound business practices. I will save you the embarrassment of contacting score.org This organization really want to help people that are willing to help them self's.
easy-lift guy
Bingo...... We have a winner!




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  #27  
Old 06-23-2014, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by TPendagast View Post
^ this.

And what happens if the teenagers own mowers break?

Also remember daddy's lawn mower isn't commercial quality.
youll have a lot of issues maintaining a group of kids who, if they want to work, actually CAN because daddy's more done broke down.

All you need is one kid to get hurt doing the work and your world is all upside down.

The gubber-ment isn't going to like you 1099in' teens.
sand that's really the only way to get around the fact that "teens" cant use power equipment legally, they can work for themselves, but not for you.

to work for themselves and BE 1099'd, they need to have their own insurance... know any kids that are going to pay the bill?

Most insurance companies want a chunk-a money upfront to initiate a policy too. Where are the kids getting that from?

Missed this post, and it's even better yet.
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  #28  
Old 06-23-2014, 04:51 PM
lawnandorder2013 lawnandorder2013 is offline
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Your points are all very thought-provoking. One clarification: I am going to be actively mowing lawns myself, and I am in charge of the schedule and all customer service. If a worker can't do a lawn, then I need to do it myself. And if a customer has an issue, they contact me. I don't just "give" a lawn to someone to be in charge of and expect a cut of the action.

This sounds really stupid, but let's just ignore the legal pitfalls for now. At this point, the business is very small and almost solely within the family. I have people within my family available to mow, and I want to expand.

It seems to be that my biggest concern is the fact that workers could just do my job by themselves. Maybe they don't need me. However, I believe that I am able to contribute to the business as a manager for multiple reasons:
A. I have spent countless hours advertising door-to-door to acquire these clients. These hours were unpaid. Many teenagers would be unwilling to do this.
B. I have experience doing what they are doing, and I train them to do it. I have made many mistakes myself so they don't have to.
C. I will establish an efficient procedure for mowing, leaving them to just make money without troubleshooting.
D. I am obligated to continue to provide service to my clients. My workers can stop at any point. One of my friends who was mowing for me decided not to do it any more because it is "too hot".
E. I handle all money. They don't need to keep track of anything. I just give them a check.

What other things could I do to assure that I provide an effective service to my workers to justify taking some of the money from each lawn? And what fraction of the income should I take?
  #29  
Old 06-23-2014, 04:57 PM
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tonygreek tonygreek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawnandorder2013 View Post
What are your thoughts on this business idea?
This forum as at least a dozen of these dead body threads laying around. They never get off the ground for a reason. If I were to highlight just one, it's the sub-contractor vs. employee issue. Research it and you'll understand. Ohio isn't a fan of such a shell game (source: I used to live in Dublin and I've owned multiple companies based in Ohio. Also, common knowledge.). Neither is the IRS.

Quote:
This is the plan for Lawn and Order, a business that I started last year. It currently has 17 clients
This seems to not be a legit business, either. First, there are at least 1.7 billion lawn care companies named "Lawn & Order". Second, it's already registered in Ohio. Time to pick a new name for your revolutionary idea.

Quote:
I think I might really have something here.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you really don't.
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  #30  
Old 06-23-2014, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawnandorder2013 View Post
Your points are all very thought-provoking. One clarification: I am going to be actively mowing lawns myself, and I am in charge of the schedule and all customer service. If a worker can't do a lawn, then I need to do it myself. And if a customer has an issue, they contact me. I don't just "give" a lawn to someone to be in charge of and expect a cut of the action.
You really should study up on Employee vs. Subcontractor definitions. Control is something you won't have.


Quote:
This sounds really stupid, but let's just ignore the legal pitfalls for now.
To "ignore the legal pitfalls for now" is really stupid, yes. You can't create a new scenario based on fantasy adaptations and workaround of current laws and regulations. They exist for a reason, with revenue through taxes being #1 on the list. Your idea fails the IRS and Worker's Comp sniff tests right out of the gate.


Quote:
What other things could I do to assure that I provide an effective service to my workers to justify taking some of the money from each lawn? And what fraction of the income should I take?
Well, if you're ignoring the above realities, you might as well take 100%. A fantasy company, with fantasy scenarios, should have a fantasy payout for you. 110% would also be pretty cool.

You just need to understand that, as you envision it, your "business model" is simply not possible. It makes asking, or answering, any follow up question an exercise in futility. Change the model, to one that is legitimate, and then work from there.
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