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  #11  
Old 07-28-2014, 08:03 PM
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Ron Wolfarth Ron Wolfarth is offline
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No spring

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Originally Posted by Wet_Boots View Post
Some of the old-old brass valves had solenoids with no spring assisting the much-heavier-than-today plunger, so they were horizontal solenoid up or else
Good one. I wasn't aware of that. I recall what we (in Rain Bird) called the ITT solenoid. It was large and a mustard yellow. I think the vendor was ITT, hence our internal name for it. Don't know if it had a spring. Then, we went to the green solenoid that is still used on some Golf Division rotors and our 3 inch BPE valve. I also don't know if it has a spring. (Products of other Product Managers.) Today, most and maybe all landscape valve solenoids at Rain Bird have springs.

You guys like photos, so here is a cut away of a PE valve that used the green solenoid. When we went to the black solenoid, it became the PEB, for B series solenoid.
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  #12  
Old 07-28-2014, 08:15 PM
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Ron Wolfarth Ron Wolfarth is offline
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Anti-syphon valves in CA

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Originally Posted by Wet_Boots View Post
In California, why not? The sight of sprinkler plumbing doesn't bother people out there, probably because they've been lawn sprinkling decades longer than most of the rest of the nation.
Anti-syphon got started back in the 1960's when residential irrigation was just starting to go well. Nearly everything was manual. So, there was a line of valves outside the front and back door so you could step outside during a commmercial and turn one off and the next one on. They are ugly, but people got used to them. Then, they went automatic and got much uglier. But the acceptance was already there. "That's just the way it is."

Other parts of the country got started in irrigation when other better choices were available and homeowners were not conditioned to accept something so ugly in their yards.

Rain Bird's ASVF Anti-syphon valve is the dominant choice of valves in residential applications in California. Back in the day when my father was a residential landscape contractor, we installed many Champion brass anti-syphon valves. Many are probably still there 50 years later.
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:14 PM
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Sprinkus Sprinkus is offline
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The green solenoids are just the coil. The coil is installed on the "plunger core tube assembly". The spring is attached to the plunger, which is inserted into the tube assembly. They are mounted sideways on the golf course heads that I maintain (Eagle 1150).
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:11 PM
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Ron Wolfarth Ron Wolfarth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprinkus View Post
The green solenoids are just the coil. The coil is installed on the "plunger core tube assembly". The spring is attached to the plunger, which is inserted into the tube assembly. They are mounted sideways on the golf course heads that I maintain (Eagle 1150).
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Of course, you are correct about the green solenoid. I guess my lack of Golf experience is showing.

We have not tested the DV and HV solenoid in this way. So, I don't recommend it.

Last edited by Ron Wolfarth; 07-28-2014 at 11:17 PM.
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  #15  
Old 07-29-2014, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Wolfarth View Post
Good one. I wasn't aware of that. I recall what we (in Rain Bird) called the ITT solenoid. It was large and a mustard yellow. I think the vendor was ITT, hence our internal name for it. Don't know if it had a spring. Then, we went to the green solenoid that is still used on some Golf Division rotors and our 3 inch BPE valve. I also don't know if it has a spring. (Products of other Product Managers.) Today, most and maybe all landscape valve solenoids at Rain Bird have springs.

You guys like photos, so here is a cut away of a PE valve that used the green solenoid. When we went to the black solenoid, it became the PEB, for B series solenoid.
those ITT solenoids were also on some Buckner brass valves, although not their residential ones - it was Weathermatic's old solenoid that had the no-spring plunger, actually a two-piece assembly, with a captive inner rod encased in the body of the plunger, said rod having an enlarged end with a conical shape, which engaged with the (removable) rubber solenoid seat

I'm pretty sure by now that all the irrigation solenoids have springs. Certainly the ITT solenoids had springs.

One thing that cut-away of the PE valve puts in mind is how the diaphragms have evolved from the simple flat sheet, to the molded shapes of today. I'd love to see how one of today's diaphragms goes from sheet to finished product.
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Old 07-29-2014, 12:02 PM
whiffyspark whiffyspark is online now
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Anyone know how old boots is? I think he could be my great grandfather.. Lol
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  #17  
Old 07-29-2014, 12:39 PM
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"Why, in my day, we made replacement diaphragms on the jobsite, cutting rubber sheet with an exacto knife"

"By cracky."
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Old 07-29-2014, 02:09 PM
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Diaphragm molding

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Originally Posted by Wet_Boots View Post
One thing that cut-away of the PE valve puts in mind is how the diaphragms have evolved from the simple flat sheet, to the molded shapes of today. I'd love to see how one of today's diaphragms goes from sheet to finished product.
I'm not sure if your comment meant to suggest that we start with a flat rubber sheet and end up with a diaphragm. Forgive me if that is not what you mean. But .... We mold all our diaphragms. It is a different molding process, but at its very basic level, it is the same. Liquid material shot into a mold. These parts have, comparatively, long cycle times and so to keep cost down, the molds tend to be high cavitation meaning that there are many parts made in a single cycle of the machine.

Here is an unusual diaphragm for the HV valve. Notice how it is eccentric. The diaphragm 'plug' is not in the center of the diaphragm. And we recently were awarded a patent for it by the US Patent and Trademark Office.
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  #19  
Old 07-29-2014, 02:37 PM
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Badly worded on my part, although I remember one unmourned brass valve with a beaded diaphragm that often saw the bead tear away from the flat portion beneath it, almost as if the bead had been (poorly) attached to a sheet of diaphragm rubber.

Some old valve designs had diaphragms that looked almost as if flat sheet had been pressed into their finished form.
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  #20  
Old 07-29-2014, 02:39 PM
SoCalLandscapeMgmt SoCalLandscapeMgmt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Wolfarth View Post
I recall what we (in Rain Bird) called the ITT solenoid. It was large and a mustard yellow. I think the vendor was ITT, hence our internal name for it. Don't know if it had a spring.
The ITT style solenoids sucked. The tolerance between the plunger and the stem was so tight that the smallest amount of grit would make them stick. Once the valves got older and you had some mineral build up in that stem it was over. I rebuilt hundreds of old brass valves and converted them to the P/N 206920-01 style solenoid assemblies.
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