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  #21  
Old 08-08-2014, 01:07 PM
Alan B Alan B is offline
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It's not a zero sum gain. There can be a shift in industries without it being an all or nothing choice (either all online or all through a distributor).

A lot of people trade stocks online but it did not eliminate the personal financial professional. They went from being a stock broker to being a financial planner, and that business is alive and well. E-Trade did not eliminate Morgan Stanley, Home Depot did not eliminate electrical distributors (nor electricians). Zappos did not eliminate shoe retailers, Bose did not eliminate stereo stores, Tesla will not eliminate car companies nor car dealerships by selling direct.

In many of these cases the efficiency increased the overall market size of the industry and brought the service to more people.

And by the way you can buy a recessed can for $19 at Home Depot but my electrician still can charge me $1500 to put 10 of them in my kitchen ceiling. I can buy a Japanese maple at home depot garden center for $39 but I still am paying a landscaper $50,000 to re landscape my entire yard.

By providing higher quality lights than people are used to for $39-$69 we are significantly elevating the quality of fixtures that most contractors and homeowners are using (no not all-- some great contractors like ABC In Canada only use the best!).* By saving (other) contractors 50%+ on their supplies we are enabling them to make more money per job and enabling them to close more sales and increasing their business. If you don't like it, no problem don't buy from us.

Overall we are helping contractors, consumers and the industry. Yes it is quite possible ABC Canadian Contractor who charges $350 - $400 per light to their multimillionaire Canadian lake front customers may be upset, but tens of thousands of contractors are being helped and happy about it.

P.S. You should learn the definition of "Race to the Bottom."* A race to the bottom is when quality or services are cut in order to lower a price. When quality is elevated by eliminating inefficiencies, that is called an improvement. Better quality brass fixtures due to increased productivity of the manufacturer is a positive thing. In fact increased productivity is the #1 reason we have a continued increase in the standard of living.
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Last edited by Alan B; 08-08-2014 at 01:13 PM.
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  #22  
Old 08-08-2014, 03:33 PM
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JimLewis JimLewis is offline
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I agree with most everything you said, Alan. However, if every lighting company sold lights with the same pricing structure that you did, that definitely would hurt most distributors bottom line. Since you're one of the only ones doing it, the damage is minimized.

To me, I see more damage from what you're doing to the contractor. But I've shared my feelings on that topic over and over again here. No need to go over it once again.
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  #23  
Old 08-08-2014, 08:13 PM
RLI Electric RLI Electric is offline
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There are some manufacturers who do sell to the contractor who are awesome. They don't sell to the homeowner or if they do, they don't advertise it. They are looking out for the contractor and have outstanding customer support. A manufacturer out of Georgia for instance is someone to be admired. Just sayin.
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  #24  
Old 08-08-2014, 09:56 PM
trock trock is offline
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I wonder why the original poster has not responded in a while.
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  #25  
Old 08-08-2014, 10:10 PM
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starry night starry night is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trock View Post
I wonder why the original poster has not responded in a while.
It was only about 36 hours ago when James last posted.
Often, many of us disappear for days or weeks when we are too busy to post on this forum.
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  #26  
Old 08-09-2014, 01:48 PM
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INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan B View Post

And by the way you can buy a recessed can for $19 at Home Depot but my electrician still can charge me $1500 to put 10 of them in my kitchen ceiling. I can buy a Japanese maple at home depot garden center for $39 but I still am paying a landscaper $50,000 to re landscape my entire yard.

I highly doubt that your electrician is buying and installing $19 commercial electric pot lights from home depot and installing them. More likely he is buying $50 housings and $25 trims from the likes of Halo or Contrast, through his distribution partners. And if not, then you are getting hosed and should know better. There is no comparison. Similarly there is no comparison between the cheaply produced outdoor lighting products from China and the likes of those made by Name Brand north american manufacturers. Same goes for most things. I sincerely believe in the old adage; you get what you pay for. Cars, homes, appliances, clothes (for the most part), food, etc. There is no comparison between a kia and a bmw, doesn't matter how you acquire it.

Overall we are helping contractors, consumers and the industry.

I would be very interested in having you go into great depth as to how you think you are helping contractors, consumers and the industry. (focus on the industry if you will... ) It is easy to state that, but please share with us the details behind your assertion.

Yes it is quite possible ABC Canadian Contractor who charges $350 - $400 per light to their multimillionaire Canadian lake front customers may be upset, but tens of thousands of contractors are being helped and happy about it.

1: we don't charge anyone "by the fixture" prices, never have and never will as each system is unique and stands on its own. Each system requires different techniques, components and attention to detail. A sophisticated system built of top quality components and involving digital controls can easily come in at much higher prices than you think. Our prices are deemed to be fair by my clients when they see and experience the attention to detail, effect, precision and quality of components we use.

2: Our clients range from middle class suburbanites in the GTA up to billionaires. We do not discriminate. I believe that everyone deserves to have great lighting in their life. Just this week we sold a $2200 system to a very value oriented client... so don't make assumptions or false assertions in an attempt to label us or cast aspersions as to my focus.


3: "Tens of thousands of contractors" Really Alan? You sell to that many contractors? Now that is a list that would be worth something.... enough that some massive lighting company would pay handsomely to own. You sure you are not exaggerating a bit there? Making such a claim might sound great on a forum, but would it stand up to due diligence?

P.S. You should learn the definition of "Race to the Bottom."
I would suggest there are many different definitions of racing to the bottom. You have yours and I, along with many other pros, have ours.



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  #27  
Old 08-10-2014, 09:33 PM
Irrigation Contractor Irrigation Contractor is offline
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What a bunch of cry babies.

ANY customer who wants to purchase/provide the equipment should be an EX customer or a never to be. If this really does get some of you that upset, then you have bigger problems than VOLT and online retailers.
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  #28  
Old 08-10-2014, 09:44 PM
whiffyspark whiffyspark is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting View Post
I would suggest there are many different definitions of racing to the bottom. You have yours and I, along with many other pros, have ours.




If you really believe an electrician is paying $50+ trim for a can you have MUCH bigger issues.
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  #29  
Old 08-10-2014, 09:49 PM
ledeez ledeez is offline
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Maybe if the Ec is installing box store garbage.... A simple lightolier swivel trim in white is at least 50 dollars
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  #30  
Old 08-10-2014, 10:03 PM
whiffyspark whiffyspark is online now
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Originally Posted by ledeez View Post
Maybe if the Ec is installing box store garbage.... A simple lightolier swivel trim in white is at least 50 dollars
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Not at our supply house
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