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  #21  
Old 01-24-2004, 09:21 PM
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Turfdude Turfdude is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by timturf
What about surflan?
We used to call it "agent orange" because of its color after mixing. It works okay, but don't leave it in a tank too long, or cleaning it becomes a pain. We too use Snapshot now.
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  #22  
Old 01-25-2004, 08:05 AM
GroundKprs GroundKprs is offline
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Pest licensing is definitely different in different states. In my state we are required to have a specimen label and an MSDS - in the truck - for all pesticides being used. Over 15 years ago, I tried to get these for consumer products, and most of the consumer product lines did not supply them, because they were not required for consumer lines. So I have forgotten about consumer pesticide products for 15 years. Does Lebanon now have a specimen label and MSDS for Preen?

And if one is using Snapshot regularly, what sense does it make to buy another product that has only 25% the range of control? Buying anything just because it's cheap is short sighted.
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  #23  
Old 01-25-2004, 08:47 AM
GarPA GarPA is offline
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only time I've used Preen is when I dont want to spend an hour going to Lesco because I was too stupid to buy enough Lesco product the last time I was there. I just dont have the storage space for much extra product
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  #24  
Old 01-25-2004, 11:49 AM
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NCSULandscaper NCSULandscaper is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by GroundKprs

And if one is using Snapshot regularly, what sense does it make to buy another product that has only 25% the range of control? Buying anything just because it's cheap is short sighted.
Because its easier to throw out some granular by hand in a small bed once in a while and when its cheap, why not use it. Just keep a container in the truck for an emergency situation.
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  #25  
Old 01-25-2004, 01:06 PM
GroundKprs GroundKprs is offline
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How difficult is it to understand the professional perspective? Cheap is always cheap, and cheap is rarely going to give you or your client a good result.

Consumer Preen is composed of the A.I. trifluralin, in a very low concentration, like most all consumer products. Professional product Snapshot is a combo of trifluralin and isoxaben. Isoxaben is a pre-emergent control for numerous broadleaf weeds that are not at all affected by trifluralin, the only ingredient in Preen.

No amount of Preen is going to give the broad spectrum of control that you get from Snapshot.

And who uses a pre-emergent of any type in an emergency situation? Pre-ems are (should be) part of a well planned management procedure. Weeds should never be an emergency problem, unless one does not understand basic lawn and landscape management principles.
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  #26  
Old 01-25-2004, 02:30 PM
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NCSULandscaper NCSULandscaper is offline
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Well im sorry you dont have good results with the product. maybe we dont have the same types of weeds as you do. I understand the professional perspective very well thanks and will put my results up against the best out there. And an emergency situation is when you run out of snapshot and you are over 2 hrs away to a dealer to get more just like GarPA said. Everyone in the world knows a consumer product isnt as strong, however something is better than nothing. Ive had good results with the product the times i use it with a good combination of a thick mulch layer. If that makes me a non-professional then so be it.
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  #27  
Old 01-25-2004, 06:04 PM
GroundKprs GroundKprs is offline
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Running out of something is not an emergency, it's lack of organization. That's OK, we all did it when we were new at it.

And if you are using a "good mulch layer", and installing it properly, that alone is all the preemergent you need for the season for warm season weeds. I've done it for 20 years. Using chemicals along with a good mulch layer is irresponsible management in my book.
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  #28  
Old 01-25-2004, 07:18 PM
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Finally, i agree with you 100% on your last statement. But even you know that you do get occasional weed seeds in mulch. So i think light use of a pre-m will be beneficial.
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  #29  
Old 01-25-2004, 08:01 PM
Ray@LebanonTurf Ray@LebanonTurf is offline
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Interesting thread;

Consumer products or RTU products are usually of lower analysis than so called pro products but don't be so quick to assume that they are not appropriate for some users in some situations. Preen does have a lower ai loading than say treflan 5G but there is one huge advantage to that, better coverage. Many herbicide applications fail due to inadequate coverage. Also the lower ai products are less rate sensitive and provide a better visual feedback on how evenly they are spread. Even the most sophisticated and experienced applicators can struggle with heaviliy planted shrub beds applications. For less experianced hired help overapplication of a pro product can be very expensive. The dissadvantage is higher cost for the active but then again I keep reading admonisments on how professionals should concern themselves with results and total cost not just cost of materials? Use what works best for you in your situation.

Trifluralin like 2,4-D has been around for a long time but that does not make it an inferior product. In fact it is one of the best preemergent product in terms of the number of tolerant plants it can be used on, an the number of labeled weeds controlled. Snapshot and Woodace Preen Plus ( Professional Preen ) are superior for broadleaf control but Gallery ( isoxaben ) is not labeled for all plants and is particularly hard on some flowers. Preen or treflan over the top of some flowers is not a probelm. Snapshot over the top of the same flower - big problem.

Yes everyone should be licenced but more importantly educated. I don't think trufluralin is an RUP in any state so you can buy that "over the counter" just as easily as Preen. A good layer of mulch is certainly the responsible IMP first line of defense but were it all that was needed I doubt very much that Preen would be a multi-million dollar prodcut. My experiance is that some shrub beds can be remakably weed free without any help while others are plagued by weeds even after several years of remulching and preemergent applicaitons. There are reasons for this but that's another story.............
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  #30  
Old 01-25-2004, 08:26 PM
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Its Snapshot for me. I'll probably use 3 bags this year.
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