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  #11  
Old 05-07-2004, 11:25 AM
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muddstopper muddstopper is offline
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SeedS,
Keep me posted on the results if you can. I am reasonably sure that we can add compost and organics with our machines, I just am not sure how well they will work during the actuall seeding process. One thing to consider is the amounts of organics everybody here seems to be recommending to use. They seem to be large amounts and a hydroseeder might not be the most efficient way to apply them. Mixing large amounts of meals in a slurry of water might make dough, ( I'm thinking cornbread). Compost on the other hand might be easier to apply and get spread evenly. You could even add seed for overseeding as you applied the compost.
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  #12  
Old 05-07-2004, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by muddstopper
One thing to consider is the amounts of organics everybody here seems to be recommending to use. They seem to be large amounts and a hydroseeder might not be the most efficient way to apply them. Mixing large amounts of meals in a slurry of water might make dough, ( I'm thinking cornbread).


Cornbread, my favorite - I can smell the lawn cookin' now.......

I had thought that the corn meal (not corn gluten meal) was applied at 10lbs per 1000 sq ft. In my case with a 500 gallon tank that would be about 65lbs of the meal. Since I normally put in between 150 & 200 lbs of hydromulch for hydroseeding I figured it would handle the meal just fine. In fact it might be a little "watery" which should help it get down into the soil a little better vs. sitting on top of the grass.

Of course I might be proven wrong - it has happened before.
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  #13  
Old 05-07-2004, 01:02 PM
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muddstopper muddstopper is offline
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The part about it being watery is the reason I suspect we would try adding more to the slurry to try and get more coverage per tank. That is why I suggested being a little conservative with the amounts used. The contents in my slurry usually adverage about 1lb of materials per gal of water. This includes seed, mulch, lime and fert. about 450 lbs of materials in a 500 gal tank. 450lbs of corn meal might make dough. Of course if we use to much we can always get out the butter and milk and have a picnic.LOL On the other hand, 450 lbs of compost would probably be soupy and spray easy. Just a guess of course, but I have sprayed 450 lbs of just lime and fertilizer with out any problems.
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  #14  
Old 05-08-2004, 01:17 AM
Tim G Tim G is offline
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You guys are going to town. Remember you just have to feed the critters in the soil,you can over do it. Evan when I make tea if I add to much food it will go anaerobic on me. Before I spray it on I had about 4 0z. of kelp fertilizer thatís in 30 gallons of tea for about 1000 sq. ft I do trees and flower beds as well with that. On established lawns I put on about 10 lbs of corn gluten per 1000 as well. Donít over do the corn meal. Ive put corn gluten on at about 20lbs per 1000 and the smell was terrible stunk really, really bad. Organic fertilizers work best when you have the biology in the soil or add it as in compost or compost tea. You can make your soil anaerobic, if you over do it with to thick of a cover and not allow air in.

I think you guys are right about the pump may kill the beneificials. What pressure does it operate at? Is it an impeller pump?

What makes up the hydro mulch?
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  #15  
Old 05-08-2004, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tim G
I think you guys are right about the pump may kill the beneificials. What pressure does it operate at? Is it an impeller pump?

What makes up the hydro mulch?
Tim,

In the jet type hydroseeders the pump is typically a very high volume centrifugal type (with an impeller). Flow rates in the neighborhood of 600+ gallons per minute. The bulk of this flow is used to agitate the contents of the tank. The typical application rate nozzles used are in the neighborhood of 50 gpm with pressures ranging from 40 to 90 psi.

In the mechanical type hydroseeders the pump is a low volume gear type that is only used to supply the application hose (the tank contents are mixed with a mechanical paddle). Pressures are higher, maybe in the range of 125psi - but the flow rate is in the 60gpm range.

The real experts can correct me on the above info if I am off a little.

The hydromulch is typically made up of ground up recycled newspaper or pulverized wood fibers (small fibers - not like sawdust). Some hydromulch is a blend of the paper and wood as well. As I understand it, there are some other types out there as well, but the wood and paper are probably 99% of what gets used. Sometimes there are additives in the mulch such as green dye, polyester locking fibers, etc. The mulch is perfectly PH balanced and will bio-degrade over time.


Hope this answers your questions.
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  #16  
Old 05-08-2004, 10:12 AM
Tim G Tim G is offline
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seedsquirter
I think I may have to invest in one of these units or possibly build one. To the best of your knowledge what is the best...mechanical or jet agitation? I have a small trailer unit right now for application, Iv'e been lookin at building a bigger one. Im thinking I wont just build it for tea alone but maybe to handle more density like a hydro seeder. On the jet pump you described above would it be a 3" pump 1/14" for agitation 1/14" for spraying?
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  #17  
Old 05-08-2004, 10:43 AM
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SeedSquirter SeedSquirter is offline
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Tim,

Discussing hydroseeder types can start wars in some circles - but here goes.....

Mechanicals are typically WAY more expensive, heavier and require more maintenance because of the heavy metal design needed to support the paddle mixing apparatus. On the plus side they can typically mix a much thicker slurry. Just make sure and bring your BIG checkbook when you buy one.

The jet types use the pump to mix AND apply, so it doesn't need the heavy metal tank. The tanks are usually poly types and are real easy to keep clean. By far, I recommend that you check out the units at www.turboturf.com . I am very impressed with the way they conduct business and support their customers. Get the largest pump & engine you can afford (largest is a 25hp 4").

Stay away from the folks building hydroseeders in Oklahoma (whatever their names are now) - they have shady business practices. You can ask Muddstopper about that one.
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  #18  
Old 05-08-2004, 02:13 PM
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muddstopper muddstopper is offline
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Tim,
The mulch in the slurry is usually what determines the amount of coverage area with one 50# bale giving approx 1452 sqft of coverage, (based on 1500# per acre rate). Increasing the amount of mulch in the tank will increase the coverage area. I guess that is why I was thinking along the lines of increasing the organic matter per tank so as to increase the coverage area. heavy much rates will make a thicker slurry and I supposed the same would be for the organic matter. Since you are saying you use 4 oz in thirty gal, I assume you are makeing a thin mixture or slurry for applications. Would the thinner mixtures work better than the thick mixture, meaning will they work into the soil at a faster rate? Whether I am trying to add 10lbs or 100lbs per thousand, it is going to be hard to regulate just exactly how much is put down using a hydroseeder and would mostly be by eyeball and trail and error to getting the correct amount down for a given area. I know somewhere there has to be a point of to much, but given the materials are organic there should be a fairly big threshold between to little and to much. I am finding out that there are organics manufactured just for hydroseeding applications but anything that is packaged and stored on a shelf cant have very many living organisms in it. Trying to figure out the snakeoils from the good stuff is the hard part.
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  #19  
Old 05-08-2004, 02:27 PM
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muddstopper muddstopper is offline
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The part about the mechanical and jet machine and one being better than the other is and always will probably be a huge argument for some people. I own both types and use both types almost everyday. The machine isnt what determines how your grass will grow, its your knowledge of what the grass needs to grow that will determine your success. I paid for my Bowie machine with the cheap plastic jug that some people call jet machines. I still use the jet machine more than the bowie. Many times I use both machines on the same job site. I planted grass side by side using the different machines and the results where excatly the same. Buy or build a machine based on what you expect to be doing with it. For lawn work a jet machine might be your best bet. For large erosion control projects then I would go mechanical.
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  #20  
Old 05-08-2004, 10:07 PM
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SeedSquirter SeedSquirter is offline
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Tim G,

How about educating me about the compost tea application equipment!

What kind of pump do you use to apply the tea that doesn't damage the organisms? What are the pump specs?

How do you transport the tea - diluted and ready to spray or as a concentrate to be mixed at the customer site?

It would make the most sense to haul and apply the minimum amount of liquid, but how do you do this and still ensure adequate application rates?


Thanks
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