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Old 01-28-2005, 03:57 AM
Ever Green Ever Green is offline
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T-190 vs Cat 267

I'm stuck. I've been looking at Bobcat T-190 and the Cat 257B or 267. I can get a new 04 267 for the price of 05 257B. The T-190 salesman does nothing but put down the Cat's. I realize he is trying to sell me a unit. I don't know which way to go. there both nice machines. I'm not crazy about the controls in the T190. Foot controls seem ancient. The Cat has great contols...especially with owning and operating tractors with buckets for so long. The T190 dealer is relatively close...Cat is not. I've read some of the posts and looks like nobody says too much bad about cats. I guess I'm looking for input on each machine. The T190 comes loaded a/c gold pkg heat. The cats would just be cab and heat...

Thanks Vincent
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Old 01-28-2005, 01:41 PM
Tigerotor77W Tigerotor77W is offline
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I'll be honest with you... I think the Cat unit is a better machine. However, if you can't afford to be too far away from your dealer, well, there's really not a choice for you. The T190 has a MUCH firmer ride and was at one point underpowered for its size (contractors complained about the engine stalling or lugging too often, especially in turns). I won't go into the physics of that because it's irrelevant directly to your decision; what I will say is that Bobcat has tried to correct it. The T190 isn't a BAD machine; I just think that if you want a 267 (not a B series?), it might be a better bet. Do realize it is a much larger machine and the track system also has its drawbacks. (Someone mentioned that after a full day of clay work, the tracks were getting so warm that the mud was literally steaming and being baked onto the undercarriage. I've got to get going, so if anyone else wants to chime in, go for it! I'll post more later if you have other questions.
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Old 01-28-2005, 06:40 PM
StoneStacker StoneStacker is offline
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267b

I'm new to this forum, but I noticed that the new CAT 267 is now turbocharged. The old one was underpowered. While was surfing the web I also noticed that ASV (I think CAT owns part of the company) just introduced a new machine they call the RCV. they say that the reach is 34" and the lift height is 131. I think it is their first vertival lift machine. I'm not sure what your needs are, but it may be worth looking at if you have a dealer near you.
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Old 01-29-2005, 02:10 AM
Ever Green Ever Green is offline
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its not a "B" series. The Bobcat guy is crazy about telling me how Cat is really not a great machine...Yes it's bigger...but in all honesty I'm only buying 1 of these for a good long time...for me Cat's it...Bobcat dealer just won't let up...Bobcat is just a rough riding machine...The 267 is a 2004 with 0 hours and cab/heat...70 horse...I can't go wrong...can I?
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Old 01-29-2005, 02:37 AM
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Scag48 Scag48 is offline
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Not at all, you will be impressed with the Cat. Bobcat is losing a part of the market quickly, regardless of what anyone says. I see more innovation from companies such as Gehl than I do with Bobcat. Bobcat was pretty much the leader for the last 40 years, until everyone else jumped in and started throwing out better products. Cat came late into the game only about 7 years ago and already has more innovations than Bobcat knows what to do with. You will thank yourself for going with the Cat one day after running it with those pilot joysticks, they are much smoother words just can't describe. You will out maneuver any machine with hand/foot controls any day and will get jobs done faster, period. I've tried both, and I hate foot controls. They're sloppy, inconsistent, and pulling your arms back and forth all day isn't a whole lot of fun. I'm not really impressed with Bobcat's hand controls either. Pilot controls are much smoother and consistent. Bobcat needs to step it up in the R&D department if they're going to stay competitive in the skid steer market for the long term. They have great cabs on their machines and they throw around operator ergonomics as a selling point, but when it flat comes down to it, getting work done fast is what this business is about. I'm probably going to eat alot of cr@p for that one, but I'm telling straight truth. Now if you want a great Bobcat product, try out their new ZHS 400 series excavators. Now there's some igreat improvement.
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Old 01-29-2005, 11:39 AM
Tigerotor77W Tigerotor77W is offline
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I'll take up the issue later (I just typed a response to scag) if someone wants to contest. I'm of the opinion everyone is entitled to their own ideas and opinions... so if scag wants to believe that, I have no right not to let him do so.

If you want the Cat, tell the Bobcat dealer he doesn't seem like he's trying to sell or endorse his product, only that he's belittling his competitor. Make sure you make him understand that you believe the Cat is a better unit. No one can predict the future here; while in theory the Cat should be a reliable machine, you won't know unless it fails.
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Old 01-31-2005, 03:52 PM
Ever Green Ever Green is offline
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Now the Bobcat dealer has come back at me with...Ready for this...A 2005 T-250 with cab/heat and hand controls for same as Cat 267. They will also throw in newer susp seat and the rental of any 5 attachments I want. This is getting crazy. The 250 has 81 horse and only ways 200 or so more lbs. Am I the only guy buying a skidsteer in Buffalo this winter? I have not operated a T-250 so don't know what I'm really dealing with. The Cat salesman is giving me some time in the 267 on Wed....I'm really confused as to which way to go. The T-190 I had for demo was awful riding and the foot controls had me hating that thing...What's different with the T-250. Hell I don't know any more...and to make matters worse the Cat salesman is saying "gotta commit soon, the 267 deal won't be around long". Help, please
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Old 01-31-2005, 05:23 PM
StoneStacker StoneStacker is offline
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Hand controls

I tried the new Bobcat "hand controls" at a show. I think that they call them EH controls because the joystick actuates a solenoid to control the pump. I didn't think they were near as smooth as the CAT skid steers hydraulic pilot controls. As far as the ride goes...if the T190 was rough, the T250 will be just as rough. I think the only difference in the undercarriages is that the T250 has one more middle roller. I also heard that the Bobcat has a hard time pushing snow because it doesn't have a suspension and acts just like a wheeled machine...the front of the tracks come up off of the ground when you push down on the bucket edge. Just my two cents.
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Old 02-01-2005, 05:26 PM
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I read that Bobcat250 already responded to Scags' post privately but I must also respond. Although never in my professional career has anyone ever accused me of being a Bobcat supporter, this will be the second time that I must refute what is said about Bobcat. I don't buy their machines and I don't buy CAT either, so perhaps I can provide a non-biased assessment of Scags response.

" Not at all, you will be impressed with the Cat. Bobcat is losing a part of the market quickly, regardless of what anyone says. I see more innovation from companies such as Gehl than I do with Bobcat."

Scag please. Bobcat's innovation has helped maintain their market share. Cat is just now at 10% market share. Considering the market share Cat has in the heavier market (a percentage I don't know, but I know it to be more than ten percent), they still haven't convienced all the CAT guys of the merits of the CAT skid steer. Bobcat remains the the market share leader at around 45%. I think if you look at the machines Bobcat has put out you'll see they are atleast innovative (perhaps not the best execution of the innovation). They have to be innovative. Its all they do and their product lines support that. CASE, CAT, DEERE don't live off of the compact market, their R&D money splits among their entire product line as do their profits. I don't feel BOBCAT has the most productive machine available. However, after running them both side by side a CAT is no more productive than a BOBCAT at least for basic loader duties. If anything we found that the Bobcat outperformed the CAT in hard dig applications. (CAT 246 VS BC250 ). If you want to pass on how happy you are with your machine great. We all do that. But statements like

"They have great cabs on their machines and they throw around operator ergonomics as a selling point, but when it flat comes down to it, getting work done fast is what this business is about. I'm probably going to eat alot of cr@p for that one, but I'm telling straight truth".

Your asking for someone to call BS, because that's what it is.

The new ZHS excavators are having some "new machine" issues themselves. Maybe in the future be a "great" product but I am sure not even sure BOBCAT would honestly give the ZHS that title yet.
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Old 02-02-2005, 07:41 PM
Tigerotor77W Tigerotor77W is offline
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Ooops, I typed a response to him publicly (here, in this thread) but decided I didn't want to suddenly snap, so I deleted my original reply and replaced it with the one that you see.

Okay, on a happier note... let us know how the demos go! (The T250 isn't going to be much easier of a ride... perhaps the controls are smoother if they set you up with a Selectable Joystick Control machine, but no other manufacturer other than Cat/ASV offers the suspended undercarriage. As for performance? 277 is a good machine... 267 is similar enough to 277... so 267 should be a good machine. T250 is great, too, but in my opinion, too big. Just like the S220 is too big. But ah well, let us know how it goes.)
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