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2500HD vs 3500HD SRW

15K views 39 replies 10 participants last post by  PLLandscape 
#1 ·
I've got a bit of a delimma. I've exhausted myself trying to think over the possibilities, and would like to get some external input. This is not a chevy vs dodge vs ford thread.



My situtation:



We own a landscape architecture and landscape contracting business. We have always run chevy trucks, our newest current fleet purchase was a 2011 2500hd 6.0 gasser. We have several different kubota excavators, bobcats, kubota tractors, etc. Currently, our heaviest equipment weighs about 6,500 lbs and is pulled on a 10,000 GVWR bumper pull trailer.



Recently, we have been getting into pulling heavier loads much more frequently with the 14,000 GVWR dump trailer. For simplicity of maintenance, we have always run gas trucks but getting into the heavier loads, the benefits of a diesel for daily towing are starting to look better.



Here is my delimma. We are intrastate only and correctly licensed to haul any truck and trailer combination up to 26,000#. However, we would like to stay under CDL which means the heaviest duty truck I can get with the trailers we already have is a 3500HD SRW Duramax at 11,400#. This truck will also be needing to tow a single wheel tandem gooseneck to haul a larger kubota excavator which weighs in around 10,200 lbs.



I don't want to get a truck that handcuffs my ability to haul the equipment I need, but I want to draw on the expertise of some who have towed goosenecks.



Between the 2500HD and 3500HD similarly equipped, towing is identical. With the 2500HD, my trailer GVWR can be 16,000# to stay under CDL, with the 3500 HD it would have to be 14,000#. Both trailers can support the weight, but the 14,000# is closer to the max load without a higher pin weight. The 16,000# trailer can more easily bear the load but with a 2500, the pin weight would have to be lower.



Basically the question is this: Higher GVWR truck with lower GVWR trailer (3500HD SRW and 14,000# trailer) allows more weight on pin , or Lower GVWR truck (2500HD and 16,000# trailer) requires more load weight on trailer itself. What would be my better option?



I see plenty of hot shot drivers with 20-24k# GVWR dual tandem goosenecks behind 2500s but is that ideal and can the truck handle it?
 
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#3 ·
Ck your laws. Anything for profit or company over 10000 (trailer) is cdl
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Louisiana has five classes of licenses. Classes A,B, and C are commercial CDL as defined by the FMCSA. Class E is your regular drivers license for common folks, under 10,000# GVWR and for personal use.

Class D is what we operate under. As I mentioned, we do not cross state lines.

R.S. 32:408 B. (2)(d) and 405.1:
Class "D" Chauffeurs Driver's License
Age Requirements: 17 years or above.
Permits the operation of all vehicles included in Class E plus any single motor vehicle used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle has a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,001 or more pounds but less than 26,001 pounds, or any combination of vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the vehicle has a combined vehicle weight rating of 10,001 or more pounds but less than 26,001 pounds (inclusive of a towed unit with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 10,000 pounds); or any vehicle designed or utilized for the transportation of passengers for hire or fee; and not utilized in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous under the provisions of the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act which requires the vehicle to bear a placard under the provision of Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR Part 172, Subpart F).

NOTE: As long as the combined gross vehicle weight rating (truck and trailer) is less than 26,001 pounds you can operate with Class D.
 
#5 ·
Ok my mistake.
A 2500 with helper springs, and a higher gvwr trailer. That would be the direction I would be looking into.
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I appreciate the opinion, and the preliminary concern. Honestly, I feel like it would be much easier if states had unified licensing laws, because sometimes it gets sticky for intrastate only operations (particularly for the sake of conversation on forums such as this). It is the same way with USDOT numbers. Some states require them for intrastate operations - apart from the federal regulations, and some don't.

Anyway, thanks for the opinion.
 
#6 ·
I will keep any truck I buy, gear under 10001 lbs. Reason is I cross state lines so if I go without a trailer I won't have any bs. Laws are always changing and getting closer to the feds limits if they are not already.
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#7 ·
I will keep any truck I buy, gear under 10001 lbs. Reason is I cross state lines so if I go without a trailer I won't have any bs. Laws are always changing and getting closer to the feds limits if they are not already.
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Thats a good point too. We do have several 2500HD's currently that are under 10,000 without a trailer. Of course anything I hitch up to pushes it over the limit. I imagine it would be different if we were right on the border of our state but we are an hour and a half from anywhere, and rarely leave the city with our business.
 
#8 ·
Here are my thoughts......... Will a 2500 handle the weight? Sure. Question is how will it hold up over time. I would also question the Chevy option unless they have made ifs a lot better for towing. With ifs your toe angle changes with load and creates uneven tire wear costing you more. Also if you go 2500 you won't have duals. A dually will be more stable, also will help keep the rear end in place with a bumper pull. Also I'd say if you arnt hauling your equipment far then don't get diesel. If you are putting miles on the truck then go diesel.
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#10 · (Edited)
Here are my thoughts......... Will a 2500 handle the weight? Sure. Question is how will it hold up over time. I would also question the Chevy option unless they have made ifs a lot better for towing. With ifs your toe angle changes with load and creates uneven tire wear costing you more. Also if you go 2500 you won't have duals. A dually will be more stable, also will help keep the rear end in place with a bumper pull. Also I'd say if you arnt hauling your equipment far then don't get diesel. If you are putting miles on the truck then go diesel.
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I know the chevy IFS for 2011+ trucks was about twice as beefy as previous years. I have not considered a difference in toe angle with a load, and while that is a possibility, I have never seen uneven wear in my experience out of the 15+ chevy trucks we have had and currently have. However, doesn't mean thats not a good point. We are low mileage but even then, the loads we are currently having to pull with a gas truck really would better lend themselves to the extra power of a diesel. I know with that said the "payoff" for longevity and long range towing vs the added expense of a diesel may not be there when low mileage, but do you think there is a time when weight of load alone would necessitate it? I'm just asking your opinion. I find that I am towing 12-13k loads several times a week, and anticipate larger loads and trailers in the future.
 
#11 ·
Considering there is no difference between the chevy trucks and you are trying to keep under cdl I would definitely go with the 2500. Dodge are the only ones doing anything different between the 2500'and 3500 with the 2500 having IRS now.
Might be mistaken but I do believe there is a difference between 2500 and 3500 SRW chevy trucks, at least in the rear suspension. The front is IFS in both. The 3500 SRW GVWR is like 11,400# vs the 2500 at 10,000#. This comes from a 3 stage rear leaf spring in the 3500 vs the 2 stage in the 2500. The chassis of the 3500 SRW is identical to that of the 3500 dually including suspension, but the 3500 dually has the additional capacity of 2 more rear tires.
 
#12 ·
The chassis of the 2500 is identical to the chassis of a dually too. The 3500 srw chevy has one more leaf in the rear. So there is basically no difference between them. I said IRS meaning independent rear suspension. And I was referring to the new dodges being the only company currently making a heavier duty 3500 than 2500.
 
#13 ·
The 3500 chevy has one more leaf in the rear. So there is basically no difference between them. I said IRS meaning independent rear suspension. And I was referring to the new dodges being the only company currently making a heavier duty 3500 than 2500.
If you're referring to the dodge having IRS, I stand corrected. I do not keep track of dodge.

I don't know how you define "heavy duty" or "heavier duty" but for my conversation I am going by a number as classified by a manufacturer and the law. To me an additional legal payload allowance of 1400# +/- is considered "heavier duty". So yes, I consider a 3500HD SRW Chevy "heavier duty" than a 2500HD. If the engineers that designed the vehicle are confident that all that needs to be raised for additional payload is the one additional leaf in the spring, that's good enough for me. I don't see too many trucks having axle, chassis, brake problems, etc.

If you or dodge don't consider that "heavier duty" than we can agree to disagree. As I mentioned before, my original post is not to discuss dodge vs chevy vs ford, but rather what configuration of combination gvwr (higher truck/lower trailer or higher trailer/lower truck) ya'll would opt to haul a particular load.
 
#14 ·
If you're referring to the dodge having IRS, I stand corrected. I do not keep track of dodge.

I don't know how you define "heavy duty" or "heavier duty" but for my conversation I am going by a number as classified by a manufacturer and the law. To me an additional legal payload allowance of 1400# +/- is considered "heavier duty". So yes, I consider a 3500HD SRW Chevy "heavier duty" than a 2500HD. If the engineers that designed the vehicle are confident that all that needs to be raised for additional payload is the one additional leaf in the spring, that's good enough for me. I don't see too many trucks having axle, chassis, brake problems, etc.

If you or dodge don't consider that "heavier duty" than we can agree to disagree. As I mentioned before, my original post is not to discuss dodge vs chevy vs ford, but rather what configuration of combination gvwr (higher truck/lower trailer or higher trailer/lower truck) ya'll would opt to haul a particular load.
Um Okay... Well I was trying to answer that question for you. I didn't realize you needed to be coddled so much while answering your question. I told you what the difference was and as a side note I told you that dodge are the only ones making different chassis between their 2500 and 3500s. Didn't get into which one I think is better. I have a chevy 2500 lol.

Here, how is this answer for you?

Hi mr. Burn the furniture, cool user name sir. Congratulations on your future new truck purchase and already having 15 others in the fleet. That's really impressive! So there is very little difference between the two trucks in question, just a leaf spring. But either one you choose will be the coolest truck in the world with you behind the wheel.
 
#15 ·
Um Okay... Well I was trying to answer that question for you. I didn't realize you needed to be coddled so much while answering your question. I told you what the difference was and as a side note I told you that dodge are the only ones making different chassis between their 2500 and 3500s. Didn't get into which one I think is better. I have a chevy 2500 lol.

Here, how is this answer for you?

Hi mr. Burn the furniture, cool user name sir. Congratulations on your future new truck purchase and already having 15 others in the fleet. That's really impressive! So there is very little difference between the two trucks in question, just a leaf spring. But either one you choose will be the coolest truck in the world with you behind the wheel.
Thank you for filling me in about the dodge. As I conceded, I do not know about dodge, so you did fill me in. No indictment intended about the dodge vs chevy vs ford, I honestly have no idea what trucks you have or don't have. I simply wanted to avoid this turning into a opinion of which truck was best thread.

Thanks for your answer, I do apologize for requiring the clarification. Clearly you know your stuff. I see no need for personal jabs. Have a nice day.

Btw, I do like my username. It is the name of a jazz combo I played in for several years.
 
#16 ·
They are the same with the exception of the leaf spring and the gvwr on the door jamb.

If the one ton will allow you to stay under 26 I would buy it over a 3/4 ton. Also, insurance can vary between the two

Some states it's beneficial to stay under 10k for med card laws. That varies state by state , which is basically why we have a "3/4" and a "1 ton"

That being said, you can buy a f350 with a 10k package if that's a concern of yours. Not sure if Chevy offers it
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#17 ·
I know the chevy IFS for 2011+ trucks was about twice as beefy as previous years. I have not considered a difference in toe angle with a load, and while that is a possibility, I have never seen uneven wear in my experience out of the 15+ chevy trucks we have had and currently have. However, doesn't mean thats not a good point. We are low mileage but even then, the loads we are currently having to pull with a gas truck really would better lend themselves to the extra power of a diesel. I know with that said the "payoff" for longevity and long range towing vs the added expense of a diesel may not be there when low mileage, but do you think there is a time when weight of load alone would necessitate it? I'm just asking your opinion. I find that I am towing 12-13k loads several times a week, and anticipate larger loads and trailers in the future.
I just think in your case diesel is a preference. It would seem like a 6 speed tranny would make up for the less torque. My landlord has a 40k gross dump truck with a 360 cu inch gas engine putting out around 300hp. It's all gearing. Will the diesel handle the load better? heck ya it will. Also a bumper pull won't effect toe angle like a gooseneck. Bumper pull you actually lift the front end up a little due to all the weight being on the end of the truck. Gooseneck will squash the whole truck down. This is why all 4500 and larger are all solid axles. The ride quality won't be there, but it will handle heavy loads better. If you are considering diesel I would also look hard at the Cummins over dmax. Also you might be interested in the engine braking of diesels.
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#25 ·
I just think in your case diesel is a preference. It would seem like a 6 speed tranny would make up for the less torque. My landlord has a 40k gross dump truck with a 360 cu inch gas engine putting out around 300hp. It's all gearing. Will the diesel handle the load better? heck ya it will. Also a bumper pull won't effect toe angle like a gooseneck. Bumper pull you actually lift the front end up a little due to all the weight being on the end of the truck. Gooseneck will squash the whole truck down. This is why all 4500 and larger are all solid axles. The ride quality won't be there, but it will handle heavy loads better. If you are considering diesel I would also look hard at the Cummins over dmax. Also you might be interested in the engine braking of diesels.
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Thanks for the info.

Today I hauled 7 12-13k gross loads of broken concrete in the 7x14 dump trailer with the 2011 2500HD 6.0 gas. The 6 speed transmission does help, but I can still definitely see the benefit of the diesel. Louisiana is flat as a pancake - the idea of engine braking sounds great, but would it see much use around here?

I had read about the gooseneck squashing the whole truck down, makes sense with it being in front of the rear axle...

I know chevy is IFS no matter what, but just for interest do the ford and dodge 2wd 2500 and 3500 also have solid front axles? Reason I ask, I see a lot of 2wd fords, dodges, and chevys for that matter running hotshot trucks around here, would they also have affected toe angles?

I would love to step up to a 4500 truck, but frankly even a 3500 dually puts me in CDL territory around here with my trailers. Before anyone says anything, I know they're relatively easy to get and then you don't have to worry about it, but there are a lot of increased costs that I don't know if it justifies for us. For the weight of equipment we would have to haul to need one, its much easier to get a subcontractor if and when we need that size rig. Just food for thought.

I honestly hadn't thought about the toe angles though, and have never heard of people with bad tire wear from towing...is that common?
 
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