Amine or Ester now???

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by americanlawn, Jun 10, 2007.

  1. americanlawn

    americanlawn LawnSite Fanatic
    from midwest
    Posts: 5,846

    Creeping Charlie, oxalis, violets (tough), clover, knotweed, purslane, clover, spurge, etc.
    Been advised by some (here) to use "amine" formulations....problem = "amines" don't touch the above"?? Been using Chaser + LI700 with really nice results, so I'm wondering "What's up"??? Why the amine recommedations ?? Been told that "esters" penetrate the leaf tissue"??

    Any results/opinnions out there??
     
  2. mkroher

    mkroher LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 539

    I *think* the amines are more volatile than the ester. I assume the reason being for summer apps for less stress on the lawn?
     
  3. LawnJohn

    LawnJohn LawnSite Member
    from Atlanta
    Posts: 147


    Actually, it's the opposite. Follow the amine recommendation. It's too hot for esters. Yes ester works by penetration, but commonly used during cooler weather.
     
  4. mkroher

    mkroher LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 539

    ... that's what i just said?
     
  5. Victor

    Victor LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,637

    What he was telling you, is that Ester-based formulations (like Speedzone) are more volatile than Amine-based formulations (like Surge). He said you had it backwards, because you stated that Amine-based formulations were more volatile than Ester-based formulations.

    Amine formulations are the only way to go this time of year. I get great results using Surge on all of the weeds you listed Larry. I've even had good luck burning down Violets this time of year. Sure, they come back by the time Fall rolls around. That just means though, that they're rearing their ugly heads at just the right time for me to finish them off for good, with an Ester-based formulation like Speedzone.
     
  6. The Ranger

    The Ranger LawnSite Member
    from NE Ohio
    Posts: 208

    Drive on the violets, fall is the best time....amine formulation (lesco 3 way, triplet, trimic 992) and I am sure there are more out there will all work on the other stuff, although oxalis might be a little tuff because of the leaf direction and the runoff.
     
  7. americanlawn

    americanlawn LawnSite Fanatic
    from midwest
    Posts: 5,846

    I'm gunna try side-by-side comparisons this week. LESCO 3-way is less than 1/3rd the cost of Speedzone & Chaser, so maybe we'll save some money too. Target weeds will be purslane, knotweed, spurge, oxalis, and ground ivy (altrhough we've never smoked ground ivy with amines). I still think I'm right by using esters for these hard-to-kill summers weeds (waxy coating), but I trust you guys. Thanks very much, americanlawn
     
  8. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 11,925

    I am with you on this idea--ester is better for the tough weeds. Strong odor scares customers, though. I add a wetting agent. Probably there is increased risk of vapor drift. One of my customers has grape vines in his yard. I tried to keep spray 3 feet away with Permagreen Ultra in April--still got some injury. (Grape vines are extremely sensitive.)

    Can't wait to see results of your side by side comparison, American. I hope you do some double and triple strength Speedzone to see if you get any injury.
     
  9. LawnJohn

    LawnJohn LawnSite Member
    from Atlanta
    Posts: 147

    Thanks Victor!!

    I'm at Disney World with the kids so I didn't have much time to go into detail.

    Momentum FX2 may be a good solution..It's a tad more than 3-way, but cheaper than Speedzone. Works good for me..


    I'd be really careful about using the esters if it's hot..I don't know the weather conditions where you are, but if it's been hot/dry, I would consider half rate and adding chelated iron to counter phytotoxicity.


    I hope everything works out.

    John..
     
  10. shaneb

    shaneb Inactive
    Posts: 34

    You could also try adding Octane to your 3-way for a better and quicker kill for not much more money than the 3-way alone.
     

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