ASV rc-100 or cat 297C?

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment & Pavement' started by benau, Mar 19, 2008.

  1. benau

    benau LawnSite Member
    Posts: 2

    i currently have a 2004 RC100 with 1450hrs and it has been problematic to say the least. Currently it is being cleaned/rebuilt due to a track motor failure sending metal contamination through the entire hydraulic system.
    I also have a wheeled 1996 JCB 185 robot, this machine has over 7000hrs on it and it just keeps going!
    I was actually hoping to get over 3000hrs in 5 years from the ASV without major trouble, allowing for the undercarrage of course. Sadly this hasnt been the case. Right now it will spend 4 weeks back in the shop costing me money when i have constant work for it!!!!!!
    I have been seriously impressed with the stability and traction of the asv, it has allowed me to do many jobs it the steep country where i work that i simply could not have done safely with other machines and it has also been able to continue working in flat wet conditions when everything else on site has stopped. But due to the mechanical troubles and cost of parts im thinking of trading it in on a new machine once repaired.
    So I want a MTL type machine that handles like my old asv but without the need for my mechanic to be more familiar with it than anything else i own. He now knows rc100 electric and hydraulic curcuits backwards.

    I have read a few posts on this site and i see im not the only one who has had reliability probs with asv's,
    Are the newer ASV's any better? (I have replacement 927B track parts fitted to mine that are improved designs that arent available from ASV and they were cheaper than the old part asv still uses)
    I also see there are weight distribution issues in the smaller cat MTL's is this also true for the 297C?
    with the ASV having about 10% more HP is there a noticable difference in performance?
    my main uses for this machine are mulching/brush cutting and earthmoving with a 4 in 1 bucket.
    all advice appreciated.
     
  2. Digdeep

    Digdeep LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,840

    Benau I'm sorry to hear that you have had problems with your RC100. I don't own one but these are the things that I have heard from my salesman about the new PT100 that ASV has come out with. New hinged/reinforced belly pans for ease of engine compartment clean out in brushcutting, metal face seals on the front and rear idlers, reinforced undercarriage rails specifically for the brush cutting side of things, stiffer suspension, new solid state instrument package for reliability, improved overhead visibility, and the operating pressure is 3,650psi.

    I also don't own a CAT 297 but I do know from talking to the local CAT dealer that the weight distribution has more weight toward the rear than the CAT 287. It was explained to me that this was due to CATs desire to have a skid steer with a ROC over 3000lbs so about 80% of the weight is toward the back of the machine. The 297 will have the same weight distribution caracteristics as the skid steers it is based off of. there is a thread somewhere on here that talked at length about hydraulic hp, engine torque and how it impacts brush cutting and I think it even had some testing data ASV did between both the RC100 and the 297. You can find it and read it for what its worth. I can tell you that the Bobcat T300 will not come close to either the CAT or the ASV in terms of brush cutting. I know because I sold them and I even remember being told that Bobcat didn't really intend to market their tracked machines in Australia because the sandy conditions severely impacted their undercarriage life.

    Ultimately you should demo both the new PT100 and the CAT 297 in your application and grill the ASV dealer about any improvements ASV has made to the PT100.
     
  3. ksss

    ksss LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 7,131

    You might try out all the machines that you think could get the job done. Perhaps you can be just as effective without the ASV track system. That would open up your options. You might also look at a conventional skid steer with VTS. Another option to ponder is to buy whatever you chose and then purchase an extended warranty. I have read several articles on the idea and I like it. I have purchased extend warranties on different machines, the last two have the extended drivetrain warranties on them as part of the promotional offer when I bought the machines and so I did not bother on these last two skid steers. However the idea is of interest to me. I have never had a major component failure on any machine I have owned. I have had smaller issues like AC condensor once, a radiator and some cab related repairs.

    I like the idea of knowing that my costs are fixed (barring operator error). There is some value to that. Also if you trade with some warranty left on the machine you are likely to recover most of the cost of the warranty back with increase resale. Some thing to think about.
     
  4. loggerdan1

    loggerdan1 LawnSite Member
    Posts: 2

    I have a 2006 ASV RC 100 track skid steer what a peice of $%%#%^ the machine has a fecon grinding head and a grapple. I was told by the salesman that there were machines in the same business with 2,000 hrs on the tracks and still plenty of wear left. lie !!! My tracks were junk by 300 hrs. and they won't stand behind them. Also last week while grinding a branch found its way through the belly pan ( which lacks major protection ) and hit the oil pan causing it to bend and leak oil. No problem just get a new oil pan right? wrong !! ASV doesn't even have an oil pan in stock !! the closest one is in Great Britan and I live in New Hampshire, USA it will take a week to get here and the cost is $300.00 just for the pan. They claim that they have to remove the engine to install the ne oil pan what a frigging joke !!

    I have all kinds of work lined up and no way to do it. The last job I was on was about 90% done when this happened and the guy wants to put in his lawn and he can't until I am finished. This macine only has 540 hrs on it and I havn't had it a year yet. I explained my situation, but the dealer won't let metake a rental !! what a bunch of jerks If you are reading this don't buy an ASV and do not do any business with the largest ASV dealer in New Hampshire !!! I have been in touch with Cat and they have a new 297C skid steer with a Bradco mulching head if I can get into a payment close to the one that I now have through ASV Capital I am going to tell the dealer at ASV that they can keep that peice of crap !! Anyone have the same issues?

    Thanks,

    Dan:mad:
     
  5. AWJ Services

    AWJ Services LawnSite Platinum Member
    from Ga
    Posts: 4,276

    In other industries customers make the seller sign a performance guarantee before purchasing the product.

    This industry seems too be void of such practices, but with prices reaching 100k for a grinding setup and the amount of problems people are having with machines setup for this it is surprising.
     
  6. Digdeep

    Digdeep LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,840

    Loggerdan1-see my post previous to yours. I think ASV has worked to address some of the issues (specifically the belly pan) with their machines in forestry with the introduction of a forestry package. I don't know if you bought on or not. It has a reinforced hinged belly pan to prevent things that happened to you with your oil pan.

    I can't speak for your tracks but I have seen ASV RC100s used for mulching up here in Wisconsin with over 1200hours on the tracks. I'm sure that there are customers getting less too. It was the same with the Bobcat tracked machines I sold. I had customers get 900 hours and some customers get about the same as you have gotten. Have you contacted a representative from ASV? You might want to do that if you think your dealer isn't helping you. Also remember, if you are unhappy with your tracks the CAT machines use ASVs tracks.
     
  7. loggerdan1

    loggerdan1 LawnSite Member
    Posts: 2

    I was told by a cat dealer the other day that the new 297 uses cats own rubber tracks and has does not use anything from ASV they had a big blow out last year.
     
  8. Tigerotor77W

    Tigerotor77W LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Germany
    Posts: 1,892

    Your dealer would be wrong... the C-series still uses ASV parts. They might not be as similar to ASV's own UC as the B-series was, but Cat is not making the UC by itself, that's for sure.
     
  9. Digdeep

    Digdeep LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,840

    Loggerdan1..Tigerotor77W is correct. Other than CAT using a drive motor/planetary combination and different bolt patterns on the bogie wheels the undercarriages are identical to ASV. The 297C uses the same undercarriage as the ASV PT-80 and everything comes from ASVs factory up in Minnesota. I'd be concerned about just what your CAT dealer is trying to feed you (sales spin?), or maybe he just has his facts messed up (probably the case). From what I could gather from the public documents from the Terex merger ASV will be building undercarriages for CAT until at least 2012.
     
  10. YellowDogSVC

    YellowDogSVC LawnSite Gold Member
    from TX
    Posts: 3,759

    Doesn't CAT own a portion of ASV?
     

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