Attention! OPE Manufactures & Lawn Magazines!

Discussion in 'Lawn Mowing' started by GrassMaster, Feb 20, 2000.

  1. I’m thinking of all the hard work that I do & the many others including Chuck. I was looking at some of the trade magazines & trying to figure out what they get paid for from these OPE manufactures. All that money, for so little content or content that has little value to the Pros in the Lawn Service Business only 3 to 5 pages per issue. For us no compensation for all our efforts. Why do these people lurk here & have no intentions of promoting our efforts. I just found out that I received 7500+ hits this past 30 days on my site & I’m sure Chuck is getting about 3 times this or more. I’m thinking & I’m thinking is it worth it waiting for a OPE manufacture or some Trade Magazine coming to our rescue. We have content!<p>I'm now thinking about it in a different way than some others do but I did read a article complaining about OPE manufactures at a particular web site. I’m mad about all the advertising they pay for in these magazines. There is a little one out there called Blank Blank & Blank & etc. (30 pages max). No the one I’m talking about is not even on the Internet yet so don’t go to my site looking for the link, but others are guilty of this too but they are also paid too by OPE manufactures. They claim to publish & circulate 90,000 issues a month & it cost thousands of dollars to advertise on just a half of a page, for just one month.<p>Well I used to get about 30 magazines a month & maybe 2 or 3 would be picked up, the rest thrown away. Manufactures just cling to them paying them big bucks to write articles, when looking at this particular magazine there is 3 to 5 pages of content & the rest advertising. Lets just say 10 out of a hundred, 100 out of a thousand & that’s 9000 out of 90,000 circulated actually get read. That’s not much on a magazine that gets filed in the trashcan. Our content stays up & is just added too. So you can go back to read later at your convenience. If you come in to our site a year from now, the content is there now just as it was then & more.<p>My web site keeps growing. Chucks & others too, but where is the support we need to provide this valuable content, where is the OPE & Magazine support that we need so bad. What else do we need to do, we can’t just do this forever for free. They are not the only people on the Internet. There are other domains out there besides their own domain. We beat the pants off the others & we don’t have 100’s & 100’s of thousands of dollars to keep the web site department going. Most of us are 1 man shows.<p>I looked at this magazine & came up with over $75,000 minimum in advertising & some months over $100,000. That’s a lot for something that has 3 to 5 pages of content. Then thrown away, now what could we do with 10% to 20% of that. Yes we could pay some big name like they do $500 or so to write us an article once a month on workers comp or how to retain employees geared toward the $1,000,000 companies. But what we could do is tell them to write it for all companies even ones with less than 20 employees, instead of writing it just for large million dollar companies so everybody could get something out of it.<p>Or (LOL) we could instead of paying them $500, we could put in inserts about their rocket science books that got people thinking this lawn service business is rocket science & that’s the way these guys perceive it after reading these books. Then their head gets so clogged up with that junk they can't even work & enjoy themselves anymore.<p>It does more damage than good. If most of these guys would run the business & work doing the actual work than making rocket science out of it, they would make a extra 20K or more a year & live longer. This business is easy if you don't think so, stand at some major intersections & count the number of trucks going by. If it wasn't easy why did you get in to it? You work with a small investment (40K is very small in the business world), make money & grow if you want too. If you try & it has been done on a lot less operating capital, just get up $5,000 & your in business. From there it is straight up if you try. Right it’s very simple & very easy. Think its tuff go & get into retail where you have got to lay down some serious cash & then make 25K to 50K if your lucky. Don't make it rocket science just work, make money & live a happy successful life. That’s why God created this kind of work he was looking after the people that had a dream of working on their own with few headaches, low investment & make a decent living!<p>Later I will put out a book that will be easy to understand without rocket science. LOL if I ever finish it & it’s unlikely because of this Internet junk. But it will be in easy to understand in English. I'm just going to tell you how to be successful in the lawn service business, the mistakes others & I have made, my ideas & give you plenty of &quot;Short Cuts to Success&quot;. If you are in to the simpler way to make money with few headaches this book will help you live a better life in the green industry. Yep I’m spamming where’s the SPAMCOP now, when he is needed? <p>I've tried to get these mags to let me put a page or 2 promoting their magazine & even put up a sign up form for their free magazine. All I ask is a small insert or 2 in their magazine about my web site. They say no because they are bought out by the big OPE manufactures & they want them to print stuff about 401K, health insurance, hiring help out of our country, drive those profit margins up. <p>Save your money & put it in a 401K plan of your own or do like all the others that are rich & buy rental property. Health insurance do like everybody else does that is self-employed buy it the good stuff is about $350 or $400 a month don’t cry & whine about the price of it. You will buy a new truck but not insure your family, go figure. Give family, friends or strangers work if you’ve searched the entire continental U.S. & still can’t find anybody. Then try another country if that is what you want or just support who you care about & take good care of them. Because one day they will take care of you. You want to make more money buy larger equipment, if it takes you twenty hours of looking for the perfect 21” walk behind forget it you will never make it, you my friend are walking backwards. If you want to accomplish it all just work smarter not harder!<p>Well how are you going to do this hiring cheap help & putting others out of work? When have they ever told you how to edge effectively with a trimmer, what to do about flats all the time, how to clean a carburetor that’s pouring gas in the middle of a job without going to shop or provide you with copies of contracts. Which direction & how to cut with your mower so it will not clog up as bad & so forth. I have done all of this & more. (BRAG) I the GrassMaster have helped 100's probably more like 1000's, one of the most well known names in the business & have not asked for one red cent doing it. Tell me which magazine or OPE manufacturer has ever done this. NADA, not a onion! They all require money for that high dollar advertising. That in all reality you pay for every red cent of it.<br> <br>Yes, several magazines have even interviewed me. They wouldn’t even give me a copy or tell me which issue my article was going to be in. But they got their free info. These OPE manufactures & magazines are reading this now just as you are. My web reports on my traffic don’t lie they are hear watching every move we make. That’s a fact Jack!<br> <br>Can you fathom what we could do if we had this kind of financial backing? We could virtually put them out of business. Then these same magazines tell you to have help brought into the states, give your employees a 401K plan & all this other stuff. I'm not against them but I have friends & family that can't even find a good job & its because these magazines have convinced the owners of these lawn service business's that you can't get good help here in the U.S., well you can you were once one.<p>You just got to try harder because they are out there looking for work & they just want to be treated right. You think you have a patent on the only hard work there is no not quite, have you ever worked as a deep fry cook at one of these burger places or seafood restaurants for min wage, its a lot harder than slinging around a trimmer & riding a ZTR all day & they would love to work for you, but you can't cuss them, hurry them, not let them off when they want & not even one of them will ever work as hard as you but they are willing to try too. But your company pays 3 dollars more than they get paid frying those fries & they are hoping they will find a job with you. Everybody else has employees & some of their work is hard too, not just yours!<p>They tell you to learn a different language. Yep bring them on over cheap help & they work hard. Its true they do in fact I do business with them & they are good people, in fact the best customers we got. I've asked them to keep an eye on the front, in front of other customers that I can’t trust so I can go in the back of the shop. I can trust these loyal people. So please don't get me wrong & try to understand where I'm coming from. Lets give everybody an equal chance. Lets don’t condemn a whole country for being lazy & another for all of them being good hard working loyal workers. Because it’s not true & if somebody thinks different Please speak now or forever hold your piece. Who will step up & make complete idiots out of themselves saying different. I’m waiting. Well? So please change your biased on way attitudes? Give everybody a chance all it can do is make you money. Do you think that Mickey D’s around the corner only hires 5 or 10 people a year. I have a friend that has a 50 employee business & in a years time he sends out 200 W2 forms minimum a year. Its called being in business or self employed!<p>They even go out on their own & they are putting the other guys out of business. Then when the other guys go up on their yearly contract at commercial places, they can't get a raise because it will be a matter of time before more of them are here & they can get their place done cheaper. So they say they can't give a raise because it's not in the budget. Then they put it up for bid hoping these guys will bid on it & they even go to where they are working to ask them, lots of times they even tell them what they will pay or were paying. It’s not fair to anybody!<p>It's pretty impressive when one of these so called presidents of the condo home owners association pulls up at one of the other commercial places & sees one of them pushing a 36&quot; walk behind that the self-propelled went out on a month ago & the other is trimming a 7' tall hedge, 6 ' wide & a 150' long with a foot or more of new growth standing on a 5 gal bucket from the local sub sandwich shop & a $12 pair of hand clippers form the local hardware mega store. Boy oh boy that’s all it takes & this condo rep will pay anything to witness this on their property. Yes sir they like performers & they will pay top dollar for it.<p>Yep thanks to those mags & the OPE manufactures that finance these mags to publish this 3 to 5 pages of stuff written for the big lawn service companies a month got me to thinking that in a matter of time we better learn to speak their language because we will be working for them. But they wouldn't hire us because we are labeled lazy Americans. Just read any of the mags related to the Lawn service business. LOL maybe they will hire us to give bids oh that’s right the other property managers are going to them & telling them what they are paying now. Well we’re out of work again.<p>Oh well I'll find something else to make money at & maybe if I put my entire life into it. It want be taken over by a lower priced labor force & I can get those big bucks that I paid in to Social Security if there is any left when I'm old enough to retire if they haven't spent it on other things. Go figure!<p>I just think they should write articles that are suited for all of us, not just the big boys. But the OPE manufactures condone this because they are paying the big bucks for it. They watch us closely here on the net every day but they go unnoticed. We the pioneers on the Internet providing more content by accident than they do on purpose & they get paid the bucks at our expense while they profit forsaking all others. But the manufactures support them & by themselves on a individual basis they couldn’t make a pimple on our butts when it comes to trying to make a living in the Lawn Service Business. But they get paid well trying to steer us the direction they are dictated too. <p>If any manufactures or magazine reps would like a shot at the title go ahead & get you a mess of it. Lets hear from you & I’ll make a deal with you. You can appreciate this very much. I’m going ahead & making sure that you will get paid if you make a rebuttal against this. Did you understand you would get paid for your comments about this post? Because you are not working for free like we are & if you do make comments we know you are getting paid too. When have any of you done anything for free. Chuck with his valuable content, the GrassMaster & many others on the Internet have not received 1 cent from OPE manufactures or magazines. With out us where would you be? <p>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<p>I was once a bottom feeder, scab & all those other names guys get called. I learned the hard way & made a lot of mistakes. Look at the money I made in those 5 years in business & the $100,000 I walked off with for the business. I’m now a wise Buffoon & I can handle criticism. I started at the bottom like everybody else did, they just don’t remember<p>Why can’t we get support from OPE Manufactures & Magazines? I personally contacted over 100 manufactures by E-mail less than a year ago & didn’t get a single reply. Well I’m back! More will read it here than the E-mails I sent out that is for sure. They should give us support, when their reps come by the dealers shops they are selling equipment & they try to shove advertising down our throats. I’ve been called on the phone 5 times in 2 days trying to get me to purchase advertising packages that cost a $1000 or more telling me all the money I will make, But they will not buy a $150 banner space for a month on a web site that has growing content. There is something very wrong with this picture.<p> <br>I feel better now & I apologize for the long post.<p><p>----------<br>GrassMaster - Have a nice day!!!!! Home Page http://www.lawnservicing.com<br>Visit my new browser Start Up Page http://www.lawnservicing.com/startup/
     
  2. GRassmaster wrote:<p>&gt;Why can’t we get support from OPE Manufactures & Magazines? <p>For a very simple reason:<p>When a mfg. buys advertising in a trade mag.<br>they know that thier products will be editorilized in a good manner.<p>But they (Mfgs.) don't even what the general<br>public to know sites like this or yours even<br>exist. Just one dissatisfied customer can be<br>a public relations nightmare (i.e. protest<br>website etc.). <p>Why should the take that chance when they know they can't control the content of any<br>web site other than thier own?
     
  3. Hello lawrence Stone:<p>You wrote&gt; When a mfg. buys advertising in a trade mag.they know that thier products will be editorilized in a good manner.&gt;<p>I would hope that the manufactures would think they would be treated in the same manner. We have 1000's of hours of hard work & 1000's of dollars tied up in these sites & we are not going to put our sites reputation on the line because of our own ideas. They should realize this by now.<p>Also wrote&gt; Why should they take that chance when they know they can't control the content of any web site other than thier own?&lt;<br>Other web sites get this kind of support from their commercial sponsors. I think we should be treated in the same manner. But like every thing else in the Power Equipment industry we will lag behind when it comes to progress. LOL it took them over 20 years to come up with a universal standard when it came to using the same format for using microfiche. This I think will be the same? It will be at our expense not theirs.<p>Thank you again lawrence Stone for your comments.<br>I would like to hear from others on this subject. Come on guys 1 response in over twelve hours. I think this post includes everybody. Its your money paying for that advertising. I bet you spend way more time on this forum than reading those magazines that you pay for. They are watching & we need responses. You are paying for the advertising, what if this forum went off line because it couldn't make enough to pay for the expenses it takes to keep it running. Hey we are not even talking about the 100's of hours of labor, just expenses. We need you to voice your ideas on this too.<p><p><br>----------<br>GrassMaster - Have a nice day!!!!!Home http://www.lawnservicing.com<br>Visit my browser Start Up Page http://www.lawnservicing.com/startup/<br>
     
  4. Hello Everybody:<p> I know this is a dirty trick to make this post now, so it will go back on top again. So please try to understand where I'm comming from.<p> You need to really think about this & the impact that this could have on everybody in Green Industry.<p> Believe me they are watching & your feedback is very important to us. All them magazines you see where do you think the advertising dollars come from? <p> It comes out of your pocket everytime you buy a piece of equipment or parts.<p> Do you think that it is right for sites like this & others not get the support they need? <p> Do you think it is right for a 30 page magazine with 3 to 5 pages of content geared for the million dollar lawn companies get paid 75K to 100K for one month of space in a magazine & not 1 red cent of your money goes to sites just like this on the Internet?<p> Hey I tried with all my heart!<p> If you approve of this just remain silent & don't post your thoughts on this.<p> Maybe all these sites will continue to stay online for free. Would any of you dare take on something like this for free & continue to keep this going.<p> It probably cost $250 a month for server space alone to keep this forum going. <p> This site is where you check for hours trying to find the best deal & best kind of trimmer for around $250. Go figure this one out from here.<p> Again if you approve of the way things are going now remain silent. You have done a good job so far. I will continue to voice my thoughts on this until I get results!<p> Chuck & others just like myself could use some support to keep this free.<p><br>----------<br>GrassMaster - Have a nice day!!!!! Home: http://www.lawnservicing.com<br>Visit my browser Start Up Page http://www.lawnservicing.com/startup/<br>
     
  5. Retro67

    Retro67 Banned
    Posts: 207

    Hey if the equipment manufacturers want to overlook, us, so be it. I don't do this for the money, obviously. I don't really have an opinion one way or another. If they want to pay me for ad space, fine, if not that's ok too. I think it would benefit them more than me individually. I have a business and consider this an accent to it since I learn from participating in these forums. If they want to advertise on our forums that would be nice. Maybe we should all approach them. Maybe they don't realize there are a few sources of customers for them online. If you and Chuck want to discuss this further with me, that would be fine. There is power in numbers and eventually they will have no choice but to recognize all of us.&lt;p&gt;John
     
  6. GroundKprs

    GroundKprs LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,969

    Sorry Grassmaster, but I cannot percieve of any Outdoor Power Equipment manufacturer or any trade publication wanting to be associated with any forum. By definition, in a forum people speak their minds. I can praise a good machine, and disparge a bad one, by name.<p>It is customary in our economy for a manufacturer to ignore or belittle any complaints about his product, whether those complaints are valid or not. The mfr will (silently) take valid complaints as input on future product enhancements. If the forum was to be financially supported by any OPE mfrs, forum administartors could be pressured to censor postings, not just relating to that mfr but to competitors. This would put the forums in exactly the same position as the trade magazines, having to present a washed out nothingness in their content. Then how many would participate in a forum? Maybe 10% of the people who happen onto the forum? So the OPE mfrs would have the same exposure in a forum as in print. <p>Since the trade magazines must dance to the mfr's tunes, they also can't have anything to do with a forum.<p>I'm not trying to belittle your message, but I'd like to redirect your question. Instead of seeking support from manufacturers individually, where can you find support?<p>Most free web sites require some details to be allowed to participate in the site. If addresses were collected, you would have data to seek advertisers from a geographic region. This might include equipment dealers, trade assns, insurance cos, truck dealers, trailer dealers. You might even consider the last four of these in a national sense. Vehicle mfrs advertise everywhere, and I think it would be safe to say that most small operators have almost as much invested in vehicles as in equipment. Also, PLCAA and ALCA are not bashful about seeking new members. <p>A little off topic, have you ever asked Doug Karcher to include a &quot;forums&quot; category on his &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.msu.edu/user/karcherd/turflinks&quot;&gt;The Ultimate Turfgrass Links&lt;/a&gt;? I found this site from one of his links.<p>----------<br>Jim<br>North central Indiana<p><p><p><p><br>
     
  7. MOW ED

    MOW ED LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 5,028

    I certainly do enjoy this as well as other forums and really hope it stays free. I am currently a lawn maintenance professional as well as a firefighter/paramedic and if you visit a site called www.firehouse.com you will see how many equipment manufacturers sponsor that site and it is great. In the site is a section for many types of forums (like this) and the major suppliers have no problem advertising there. I believe that it is just a matter of time before the lawn industry wakes up. <br>For what it is worth ( and I hate to spend money) but if this site was a pay site I would consider it even though I am a very small operation. What I have learned so far is worth plenty to me. Thanks and keep trying.
     
  8. Keith

    Keith LawnSite Gold Member
    Posts: 3,977

    I just think a lot of companies don't see the value of these forums yet. They see a greater sales increase from magazine adds. They don't want to step into the snakepit and get bit by people who may have a problem with their product.<p>Let's imagine a large manfacturer of large back pack blowers wants to do a litte advertising. Let's call em Homeblow. Homeblow comes to you and says we are willing to advertise for $1000/month with your site. Everyone agrees and it's a done deal. Meanwhile in the forum a user has had a Homeblow fly apart during use. Two other users step forward and say &quot;mine did the same thing&quot;. Before long it has snowballed into &quot;Homeblow is junk.&quot; The posts stay up and Homeblow is none to happy and cancels the ad. No loss, someone else will advertise. <p>But modify the numbers a little. Say Homeblow pays $10,000 /month for advertising. At what point would negative posts be deleted? Why do companies like Stihl and Husqvarna advertise in Nascar? Because a lot of people watch it and there is virtually no chance of Ned Jarrett or Benny Parsons (Nascar Announcers) saying the product is Junk. :)<p>Smaller companies that are less known would benefit greatly from advertising here but I don't see the equipment giants wanting to get involved.<p>Also, if it came down to money, I would much rather pay for honest opinions, than to have some watered down rag that is funded by the equipment manufacturers<p>
     
  9. Administrator

    Administrator Administrator
    Posts: 865

    I started this forum about 2 years ago and NEVER even imagined making a single dime from any advertiser. I did it because I love lawn care and I love the conversations and content this forum provides. But, this site is now getting over 400,000 hits a month and thats got to be great exposure for a manufacturer in this business<p>If a manufacturer does decide to spend money and place a banner on my forum they better have a good product because they are opening themselves up for a open public discussion. I will never interrupt a discussion about a product. <p>The only discussions I do not like to see on this forum are posts attacking other members or subjects that are off topic.<p>I have received many dozens of emails from startup companies thanking me for providing a place where they can get great info. from many great guys. I thank you for this!<p>Yes, my server and co-location fees peek $250 a month to operate this forum. LawnMonkey.com has helped me with advertising and Phil Nilsson gives me a high percentage of his book sales when somebody buys a book from this site. If a company wants to replace that smaller banner in the upper right let me know and we can work out a price for great exposure.<p>Again, I thank you guys for making this forum a success and I look forward to the future. I have a lot of plans for the lawnsite and I look forward to helping your business grow.<p>PS.. This forum will always remain a free resource to users.<br>
     
  10. cjcland

    cjcland LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 278

    grassmaster....maybe you could talk to some auto companies like ford or gm something like that or maybe gatorade stuff like that ray ban there are alot of companies that might be less contoversial subject matter i dont know i dont claim to know anything its just a suggestion maybe t-shirt companies, things like that. it dosnt have to be equipment there are alot of things out there that we use that 1 is just as good as the other unless we want to argue about gatorade vs. powerade whats the differance the one who has the add on your site will make out better than the one who dosnt , if i sound like an idiot let me know im just trying to help<p>cjc landscape management
     

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