Beginner's dilemma

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment & Pavement' started by zeratul, Nov 5, 2005.

  1. zeratul

    zeratul LawnSite Member
    from EGYPT
    Posts: 2

    hi all
    I'm new in the equipment business and i'm in the market for both an excavator and a wheel loader and I have my eyes set on either a Cat, a Volvo or a Komatsu brand of the two machines due to dealer limitations in my country Egypt.

    the loader is supposed to handle (2-3) cubic meters and the excavator about 1 cubic meter.

    My main interest is something with high durability that can endure rough operating without going under.

    Any help is appreciable :blush:
  2. Squizzy246B

    Squizzy246B LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 837

    For loaders I can speak from experience:

    You have picked three good brands to look at. In your case (no not Case) I think dealer support and service will be the biggest issue. The Volvo loader is a whizzbang machine, fast, smooth and very very efficient. Its hard not to be impressed by the Volvo Loader. However a lot of the newer machines have way too much electronics for my liking.

    The Komatsu is a capable loader and the Cat is generally regarded as being an industry benchmark. If I was going to buy a new machine and keep it long term then it would be a Cat. Cat also holds re-sale value best. Cat service is 2nd to none but thats not to say your local dealer is not an egghead. I have a problem with European machines and the price of spare parts. If its American or Japanese parts are reasonable but European parts can be exhorbitant....just ask a Volvo or Scania truck driver. Things may be different in Egypt.

    For excavators I'll leave you to those more experienced with larger machines..Oh and look around at some other forums too.

    There is also lots of general information here in these threads about different brands. Have a scroll through, lots of good reading.

    Welcome to the Forum:D
  3. Tigerotor77W

    Tigerotor77W LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Germany
    Posts: 1,891

    What is your timeframe for purchasing? What type of jobs will each machine be doing? (For instance, will the loader be doing bank excavating, or heavy digging, or truck loading/hopper charging; will the excavator be placing pipe or mostly digging?)

    Is Deere a market presence in Egypt?

    Also -- please turn on your private messenging system. There are a few items I'd like to mention to you...

    And welcome to the forums! :)
  4. Gravel Rat

    Gravel Rat LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 9,544

    For a loader go with Cat the size of machine you are looking for is a 966 it can handle 3 yards depending on the bucket (spade or teeth). As for excavator you are looking for a machine that runs a 1 meter digging bucket or a 1 yard clean up bucket. Depending on your digging conditions you may want a 200-220 (19 metric ton) sized machine with long carriage if you want a machine with a 1 meter clean up bucket and a .5 meter dig bucket. If you want a 1 meter dig bucket you are looking at a 270 machine (23 metric ton).

    My preference for excavators is Hitachi/John Deere either one will work good Cat excavators are expensive to buy and repair and don't last any longer than the rest. You can go with Komatsu they are okay but they are a cheap machine.

    You have to give us more of a idea what you are doing with the equipment so we can give you a better answer.
  5. Scag48

    Scag48 LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,067

    Cat's aren't expensive to repair, if anything parts are cheaper because they are widely available. Expensive to buy, yes, but dealer support is unmatched.
  6. Gravel Rat

    Gravel Rat LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 9,544

    Maybe in the States Cat parts are cheap up here in Canada they are not as for dealer support not so good either. The thing with Hitachi/Deere is parts availability is good the service is good there are Deere and Hitachi machines everywhere.

    You need parts for your Cat you gotta deal with the dealer and wait for the parts to arrive. You need your machine repaired well you have to truck it to the dealer big big money can be 1000 dollars each way. You need to use Genuine Cat parts which is very expensive.

    The Forestry companies that use more excavators than anybody else choose everything but Cat. The excavators used in the Forestry are designed for Severe service with extra heavy under carriage lots of guarding. The machines of choice is Hitachi Deere and Komatsu.

    Komatsu and Deere/Hitachi have the best service so far you need parts or warranty work done its done. They have service trucks and resident mechanics where as Cat doesn't.

    The only place you see alot of Cat equipment is in gravel mines where they use Cat Dozers and Loaders the only people Cat is interested in.

    Cat used to be used 20 years ago then the Japanese machines came into market good bye Cat hello Hitachi. The local excavation contractors all run Hitachi Deere or Komatsu each contractor has 100,000 to 300,000 dollars in excavators.
  7. Scag48

    Scag48 LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,067

    I don't mean to pick a fight gravel rat but some of the stuff you posted just isn't quite true.

    You'd have to deal with a Deere dealer to get parts for a Deere, what's the point? Parts to arrive? They stock them all in a warehouse onsite unless you have an older machine which might call for refurb parts or very rare/obsolete parts.

    I think Cat produces a better severe service/highwalker package than Deere IMO. Guarding? You can get guarding on ANY brand, I don't see how Deere would have an advantage there.

    That is 100% untrue. Our Cat dealer has 3 service trucks for a 50 miles radius. Cat has built their reputation for years with their service and support and Deere or Komatsu could never come close to that kind of service. Period.

    Yeah Cat makes all sorts of equipment but the only things they want to sell are large dozers and loaders? What the hell does that mean? So you're saying that even though they make excavators they don't want to sell them? WTF? I tried to look at a Deere excavator but the saleman never wanted to talk to me. So I went back to my Cat dealer who has always been there when I needed them and they had a machine that we needed for a price we could handle.

    Since Cat excavators are built by Mitsubishi, I'd say the japanese difference is zero to none.

    I hate to start a war but at least get your facts straight. Saying one brand is better than another by making statements like "Oh, the Deere parts are cheaper" is a really shady argument. I'd hope that if I get 3,000 hours out of an excavator before putting more than $3K worth of parts into it, excluding routine maintenance and wear and tear items, I'd say it was a pretty damn good investment.
  8. Squizzy246B

    Squizzy246B LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 837

    This gonna get up there with the Ford vs Chevy thing..:rolleyes:

    Downunder Cat is generally the most expensive to buy, but they are predominantly here for our massive mining operations. Parts however are pretty reasonable. The problem I have with some other brands is technical expertise available on the ground. JD is down here in agriculture.."Deere to own and Deere to operate" the farmers always say...but they keep on buying headers like there is no tomorrow. I imagine, and by the sounds of things, parts prices and service varies greatly in other parts of the world.

    I also think some, like Hitachi, have given Cat a real kick in the pants, especially in excavators, and especially in terms of operator comfort. It wasn't that long ago, when they totally dominated sections of the market, that Cat thought a seat was a piece of tin with a ding in it. A cab was piece of railway iron over your head to stop trees falling on you!.

    Anyway, advice to the original question, check out your dealers...when your machines are down, service and parts is everything..particularly if you are on contract.
  9. Tigerotor77W

    Tigerotor77W LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Germany
    Posts: 1,891

    I'll go down a slightly different track here, ho hum... the 966 is not a 3 yard machine... it's more a 4.5-5 yard machine. The 972 is a 6 yard machine, and the 980 is a 7.5-9 yard machine. The 25 (or 27)-metric ton class is the Deere 270/Cat 325, and each of these machines will likely be capable of handling a larger bucket than a pure 1.0 cubic meter bucket. I'd tend to think the Deere 200C LC or 230C LC, or Cat 320C L or 322C L, would be a better fit, and certainly so for a company just starting out. The performance difference between a 320C and 322C might not be that high, but initial purchase cost and fuel may make a bigger difference.

    But whatever machine seems to fit in our theoretical applications here, we really need more information. And to open up your PM box. :D
  10. Gravel Rat

    Gravel Rat LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 9,544

    Hey I'am not going to argue there must be a reason why Hitachi and John Deere out number Cat excavators everywhere in this area because Cat's service sucks they are expensive and wear out just as quick as any other brand.

    The Forestry companies here buy more excavators than what is prolly in your state the !

    The companies that run Hitachi excavators here prolly been in business longer than you have been born ?

    Just one of the logging contractors here has close to million dollars worth of Hitachi excavators all EX-300s and EX-400s the machines work in blast rock every day 10 hours a day tgats just the road building crew. The log loaders and production crew are running 10 hours a day chucking logs.

    If the Hitachi machines didn't stand up they wouldn't be used trust me these guys dig in harder conditions that anybody else. Does your machine rip buckets apart digging rock probably not do you build roads probably not.

    When you work with excavation and logging contractors with as many years of experience as I do you learn what works and what doesn't.

    Lets see I have been around heavy equipment since I was 10 years old so thats pretty close to 20 years I live and grew up in a resource community.

    I would say I have years of experience over you so why even argue the equipment I work with would belittle your mini excavator. The one contractor I work with time to time has a Kobelco excavator that has a clean up bucket on it that your 303 would fit in.

    As for the guy in Egypt I looked up the Deere website and they have a dealer in your area.

Share This Page