Ok I'm going to try to get enough details written down here. I will be putting in a patio for my bother this year. This issue I am dealing with is how to handle a minor grade change. The distance from the back of his garage to the fence gate of the pool is 17ft with an elvation change of 8-10 inches, the garage side being higher. His whole yard slopes downhill. The patio needs to be level with the pool gate to allow it to open which means removing alot of soil from the garage side of the area. The idea was to put in a small 6-8" wall along the one side (the other side is next to the house) to allow the patio to sit lower than the grade. Is this an ok way to approach this? Is there a better way. Like I said the main problem is dealing with the grade to allow the pool gate to open.
Also watching your rentals, I would have done all the excavating first, and then rented the compactor. You could also get 90% of the pavers down before needing to make any cuts. Just a thought.
I was thinking that as well with the rentals. Your are probably going to take a couple of days laying the pavers since it is your first time. If I was you, I would have laid the field and soldier course first then just grabbed the saw when I was done to do all the cuts at once. That is unless you have a good rental house that gives a good weekend deal. We have a few up here who only rent to companies and not home owners, they almost give the equipment away for weekends.
Thanks for the ideas. At the end of this I will be going over all the pitfalls and mistakes I can think of. Luckily and unluckily that small compactor wasn't working so they gave me another, it didn't work, finally got the bigger one which then they only charged me the small compactor weekend rate along with the Dingo with a 10% discount for all the trouble. But again first hardscape = not knowing for sure when I'd need what. I also thought I'd be farther along so I had all the equipment ready, classic rookie mistake. Well hopefully it goes well today! Posted via Mobile Device
Yes I've used a couple of weekend rentals as they are discounted. Everything is paid for by my brother and I'm using this as more of an experience than money maker, but am still being paid for it. Posted via Mobile Device
Sorry one more thing. If I get say half the field laid, do I compact 2/3 of that or just wait until its all down? Swear I read to compact at the end of a day? Posted via Mobile Device
Was only able to get a half day in but got some ok production. Screeded the sand and once the pattern was in my head it was easy to put down. Getting the pavers to the area to lay was the biggest pain. Also either this product is junk, old, or something else but the amount of effloresence is unbelieveable. Luckily my brother could care less, more of a function than image person, so he says "keep going". But really?? LONG day ahead tomorrow.
Yes that is the pattern and I thought similar. Manufacturer is Atlas Hardscapes, maker of Allan Block. I'll post the pattern later. If I do another hardscape I'll look into a different manufacturer I think. Maybe Unilock, they're big around here. Posted via Mobile Device
Don't compact until all is down and edging is in and you have swept sand.
As for Allan Block, you will see a huge difference in quality when you look at Unilock. Allan block tried to push their material around 8 years ago, they had a seatwall block that was only 6 inches thick and was hollow, how long before that wall would fall over.
Got the patio in!! Thanks to help from my brother and his wife. Ran out of pavers during the walkway so that put a halt to things. Thanks to the guy placing my order not listening to me to add 10% to the square footage. Still need to get those walkway pavers in and get the steps up. This does feel like the never ending job. Compacted the patio because I had the compactor rented and wasnt about to not use it and pay for it. There are a few mistakes I need to correct and my bond lines are not the greatest. Again this is my FIRST hardscape and in hindsight I picked quite the project to start with. A nice square 10x10 would've been nice.
On the patio I was't a big fan of the pattern, the lines are too long. But now that I see the walk way I definitely am not a fan of the design. The lines go all the way across the walkway. If you were set on that pattern I would have done a different one on the walk way and blended them together
Again, first hardscape. Only thing I was "set" on was completeing it. I agree, I don't like any of the product. It is what it is, but noted. Posted via Mobile Device
Also I know it's not completed yet but all comments/suggestions are welcome. If a negative one, which are fine, I just ask that you supply the better solution or way as have already been done a few times. Also remember this is the first one I have ever done without any prior experience working for a landscaper who does this type of work. First time with compactors, wet diamond saw, and pavers for that matter, etc.... Most of you guys here do execptional work and I know this is not going to be remotely close to the product you offer your clients.
A few things I have learned along the way:
- Should have started with a more simple project.
- Takes much more time than you think (especially for first time).
- Totally wasted some money in rentals, as stated above, due in part to thinking I'd be moving quicker.
- Don't put base stone on any soft surface. Luckily we have soil from removal to spread around and seed.
- Leveling the base is so important and mine is off just a bit and you can see it, luckily still pitched away from the house though.
- Laying pavers by yourself takes A LOT of time. Having someone be able to at least stage them for you is a time saver!
- Cutting pavers takes a lot of time
- All the small things you can't envision happening without doing many many installs.
Hopefully my brother gets to enjoy his patio for a long time and thanks to him for willing to sacrifice himself for my rookie mistakes.
Looking pretty good for a 1st time job especially for a decent sized one. Looks like there could be a few waves in the patio but could also just be camera playing tricks. Something I do but is not favored by all hardscapers is doing the border quick and easy. What I do to minimize all measuring and piecing in is: Lay out the paver field, lay your border on top of the pavers grab a sharpie and trace a line on top of the pavers along border. Remove border get your cut off saw and make a cut along that line, remove cut pieces and put border back in. Huge time saver on any curved areas and a tighter fit I think.
I remeber doing a job for my mom and dads houses many years ago when I started and I spent a small fortune on rentals, had no idea the time each part took and ended up keeping rentals 2-3 days total waste live and learn though.
Thanks Promower. There is a little dip in the middle that was a surprise for me as that was the spot I leveled and leveled. Ugh. I agree with your idea for the border but I had a wet table saw. Posted via Mobile Device
Something I do but is not favored by all hardscapers is doing the border quick and easy. What I do to minimize all measuring and piecing in is: Lay out the paver field, lay your border on top of the pavers grab a sharpie and trace a line on top of the pavers along border. Remove border get your cut off saw and make a cut along that line, remove cut pieces and put border back in. Huge time saver on any curved areas and a tighter fit I think.
.
Imo you are still wasting time by setting up your soldier on the outside edge. I agree cutting in place is a huge time saver but you could of decreased that time by half at least if you would use "snap edge" as the layout tool instead of the brick.
Thanks GOLDPRO. Hardscaping is indeed that...hard. But if another job comes my way I'll feel a little better prepared in understanding what should and shouldn't be done. Not sure if you do any hardscaping but for me if a few jobs come up I feel a wise investment would be the smaller tools such as a paver saw & plate compactor. For the money I spent on renting those two items I could have found a good used gas paver saw. I can rent the big stuff like a skid steer or mini ex as those have a tremendous up front cost.
For those seasoned in hardscapes I'm just curious how long this type of job would've taken you (eventhough im not done) and how many guys. Just for perspective. Posted via Mobile Device
Also I know it's not completed yet but all comments/suggestions are welcome. If a negative one, which are fine, I just ask that you supply the better solution or way as have already been done a few times. Also remember this is the first one I have ever done without any prior experience working for a landscaper who does this type of work. First time with compactors, wet diamond saw, and pavers for that matter, etc.... Most of you guys here do execptional work and I know this is not going to be remotely close to the product you offer your clients.
A few things I have learned along the way:
- Should have started with a more simple project.
- Takes much more time than you think (especially for first time). Even us veteran contractors will get at least 1 to 2 jobs a year that take longer then we ever thought
- Totally wasted some money in rentals, as stated above, due in part to thinking I'd be moving quicker. When renting - sometimes renting for weekly periods are cheaper then daily periods.
- Don't put base stone on any soft surface. Luckily we have soil from removal to spread around and seed.
Sometimes you can't avoid dumping aggregate on the lawn. But you need to account for this when you price the job. If the job will take 15 tons - factor in an additional 3 tons to compensate for the aggregate you lose in the lawn. And factor in a couple yards of top soil for repairing the area when you're done.
- Leveling the base is so important and mine is off just a bit and you can see it, luckily still pitched away from the house though. This will account for 50% of the labor time. We use a string line and line level for leveing the aggregate base. With the line you have a visual and can see what's going on. Whereas, if you use a laser level - you don't have the visual that tells the whole story.
- Laying pavers by yourself takes A LOT of time. Having someone be able to at least stage them for you is a time saver! I think many of you may think the term HARDscaping refers to my chest - but no, the work is called "HARDscaping" for a reason
- Cutting pavers takes a lot of time Yes it does. And making perfect, clean, crisp cuts takes even longer. As mentioned in an earlier thread 0 we do almost all of our cutting with a table saw, we do not use a cut off saw. We sell craftsmanship. Not a production tract home.
- All the small things you can't envision happening without doing many many installs. Such as daily cleaning of the driveway and street. I', pricing a large patio for a repeat customer - just sweeping the poly sand in is going to take 2 guys about 1/2 a day. Of non-stop brooming.
Hopefully my brother gets to enjoy his patio for a long time and thanks to him for willing to sacrifice himself for my rookie mistakes.
Thanks DVS. Your answers are much appreciated. Hardscaping is definitely hard work and takes more craftsmanship than a lot of other landscaping tasks. Base is so important and I know it was preached into my head but now I can fully understand why. Posted via Mobile Device
Day 2, definitely my last hardscape job I'll ever do. I feel like the blind leading the blind................When this is done I cannot wait to leave it behind me. Hardscape pro's, it's all yours, I want nothing to do with it.
...........But if another job comes my way I'll feel a little better prepared in understanding what should and shouldn't be done........... Posted via Mobile Device
Funny how your attitude has changed now that you can invision the finished project. I think the majority of us went through this in the beginning, the first time you tackle something like this you have all the hickups and don't think the end will ever be in sight. Once you get towards the end you start to see that you can have a future in it.
Yea I was in panic mode at that point. Not knowing when that next step would move forward. Ya know the 3 year old coming out in me But thankfully helpful and knowledgeable people here can help. They cannot do the work for you but can surely offer suggestions whether it is before, during, or after the project.
Hoping for completion this weekend, at least of the hardscape. Still lots of clean up and other finishing touches after. Posted via Mobile Device
So today was a cut and fill day. Final rental of the wet saw to get everything cut. The stairs are up but I still need to get sand under the pavers. I have them in the area because I needed to get everything cut today so thats why it looks like that on the top. Finished the walkway and just need to sweep in poly sand on the entire patio/walkway surface. Cutting takes much longer than you would think. The holes I needed to fill the walkway in were easy because it was basically just splitting the rectangle paver in half. But corners, curves, and angles just take time. Just some updated pics of the progress. For those wanting to dabble in hardscape my suggestion....do a simple 10x10 patio first. This was crazy for a first job. Lots of things to get done and for one person this was A LOT of work. Also this was my first experience with the tools to get the job done such as the compactor, wet saw, pavers, and other misc things. Lots of on the job learning. Wow the mistakes.....
Have a great labor day everyone.......if you get the holiday off.
Looks alright.
I do not like that pattern, there are some long lines as stated before, and it just looks bad in my opinion.
Could you have done a random pattern with that brick, or would it have not worked out?
You can see in the first picture the lines aren't really straight.
What kind of edging is that?
In the stoop picture, is there no over hang on the caps?
One of my biggest pet peaves, not over hanging caps on walls and steps/stoops.
Big daddy b, I wasn't about to attempt my own random pattern on my first job but yes I hate that pattern now too. Just lends itself to not look good without A LOT of work. I will say this my brother laid the majority of the patio and walkway that is showing in the pics looking from the walkway up to the patio so blame him I think the edging is called Sure Foot. It's what they gave me. I was under the impression to not overlap on the steps or very little according to code but I agree it would look better with some overhang. They are not glued down yet so maybe I can give a little bit?
Again I know my aesthetic mistakes I made and am thankful to my brother as he doesn't care. I also have a better idea of the base prep, which again was the first time ever. Base is by far the most critical step. I''ve never laid a paver until this project remember.
Thanks everyone for the criticisms, tips, suggestions, and the limited compliments (keep them all coming). They all help make for a better second project should it come. Posted via Mobile Device
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Lawn Care Forum
7M posts
202.7K members
Since 1999
A forum community dedicated to lawn care and landscaping professionals and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!