Bobcat S220 Vs CASE 440

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment & Pavement' started by ksss, Sep 20, 2005.

  1. ksss

    ksss LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 7,131

    I recently ran both machines side by side. The Bobcat was equipped with Pilot Controls. My thoughts:

    S220: I have always given Bobcat an opportunity before I bought a new machine. They brought out a S220 with pilot controls. I will start by saying it is the most impressive Bobcat I have run. My issues with the AHC system are gone along with the excessive feedback in the controls, the delay in the electronics between movement of the hands and the bucket moving, and the obnoxiously long lever movement. The pilots were responsive and cycle times, although not mind blowing, were acceptable. It multifunctioned well. Comparing the Komatsu I recently demoed, the Komatsu still has the best "feel" in the industry in their pilots but the Bobcat wasn't bad. It isn't hard to kill the machine even with the "power management system" simply push into a pile and move the bucket and it'll kill if pushed. However it was not under powered it ran well for this weight class. Very well balanced machine. Visibility was acceptable to the left and right and poor to the rear. Visibility to the cutting edge was poor. The Bobcat would not snuggle up to high sided dump truck like the 440/70XT will. The step gets in the way and it seems like the front tires are mounted further beyond the machine verse the CASE. I can dump further to center of the truck with the CASE.

    440: I had ordered one of these last fall but do to production problems it was July and I still had not seen mine. So I cancelled the order. I did not want an 05 machine showing up it Sept of 05 prior to the release of the 06 machines. Overall it worked out. I put another 500 hours on my 70XT but only gave up 600 in trade allowance. Also this gave me a chance to run a 440. My guys initially struggled with the sensitivity of the controls verse the 70XT. After a few hours everyone was impressed. I ran the machine for a few hours and I have to say it is the most responsive skid steer I have yet run. It is fast, I should say incredibly fast. It is also more powerful than the 70XT which I thought was powerful. It is a very impressive machine. The help prefered to run the CASE over the Bobcat but they are more familiar with the CASE product so naturally they are more inclined to run what they know. This 440 will certainly be in demand for guys needing a high performance machine. The 440 is dimensionally the same as a 70XT. Visibility is excellent to the sides and good to the rear. It is not as long as the Bobcat. So it feels more manueverable. The 440 is lighter in the tail than the Bobcat.

    Overall I will probably go with the CASE but it wasn't a blowout like it usually is between the CASE and Bobcat machines. Bobcat has made many improvements over the last 2-3 years. The fuel economy on the Bobcat was good getting 9 hours out of a tank. I still struggle with some durability issues with the Bobcat. I question whether all that gee whiz stuff in the cab will last. This machine had less than 100 hours on it. The foot throttle did not work right, the loader arms settled very fast requiring you to constantly adjust as you drove. The park brake system is a joke. CASE did away with a very similiar system when the 1800 series was put to sleep. The Bobcat guy gave me a number of 35K fully loaded Cab, ride control, quick attach etc. I will know shortly what CASE will be on their 06 machine.
     
  2. Scag48

    Scag48 LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,067

    Another good review ksss. So are you getting an 06 440 or...? I have the same thoughts about Bobcats as you do in the last paragraph, cheap, fancy crap that shouldn't be in a skid steer that Bobcat has incorporated to boost the cost. 9 hours on a tank isn't too bad, we're getting about 14-15 with our 216, respectively. I was confused, did you say that you CAN stall the S220 or cannot? Most Bobcats I ran stalled just about every time I hit the pile, regardless of how nice 'n easy I took it. Anyway, thanks for the info!
     
  3. n2h20

    n2h20 LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 503

    thanks for the review..
     
  4. anteater6788

    anteater6788 LawnSite Member
    Posts: 83

    Thanks for the report. I was interested in how well the new Cases would perform since they went away from the very well proven 3.9 Cummins engine but it sounds like they didn't loose anything in the change. I also have the same opinion about the Bobcat's being much fancier than they really need to be for most jobs, I think that's whay the 1845C's are holding their value so well around here, they didn't have the fancy electronics or digital readouts but they were built tough and will run forever. I am only about an hour from the Case contruction equipment plant and I had a college friend who worked at their proving grounds so I heard alot of horror stories about how they tested their equipment before anything got released.
     
  5. Tigerotor77W

    Tigerotor77W LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Germany
    Posts: 1,891

    Man, I was waiting to do that, though I had hoped I could do it myself... :( Would you believe that I wanted to rent five machines (Deere 260 or 270, NH Ls180, Bobcat S250, Cat 252, Case 85XT) for a few days and run them all myself, lifting pallets, digging, and judging sound and visibility as well... big dreams, but scarsely (sp?) got the money to do that.

    So Kaiser, thanks for that review! I think the S220 would be a great skid if it weren't so bloody big... everything else in its class (maybe cept the Komatsu Sk1020; haven't checked that one) is smaller than it. Bah.
     
  6. Tigerotor77W

    Tigerotor77W LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Germany
    Posts: 1,891

    14 and 15 hours is darn impressive! I guess that accelerator pedal does a good job with good operators.

    Bobcat, with its SJC (selectable joystick controls; allows you to switch between Cat ISO controls with Case H-controls), has incorporated a power management feature (similar in idea to Cat's anti-stall feature) that is supposed to prevent the engine from stalling. Kaiser may have gotten a machine whose electronics were tweaked (ah yes, Bobcat does it with electronics whereas Cat does it with a valve) or badly programmed. Machines with SJC aren't supposed to stall -- and certainly not that easily.
     
  7. Scag48

    Scag48 LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,067

    S250, the foot pedal really DOES save a TON of fuel. It's actually extremely surprising how much you save by only being at full throttle when you need it. Probably my favorite feature on the machine.
     
  8. Tigerotor77W

    Tigerotor77W LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Germany
    Posts: 1,891

    I had a long shpeel about my operating skills, but decided to try not to drag this thread off track (like I did with the JD322 one haha). But good to know, scag... I'll be sure to remember that when people ask "Case or Bobcat?"
     
  9. ksss

    ksss LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 7,131

    The power management system did work but it is connected to the drive motors. If you just pushed into a pile you could not kill it. However if you pushed into a pile and used to the loader arms or bucket functions to the limit of the machine it would kill. I believe that it was those secondary hydrualic functions that would kill it not the drive motors which were protected and worked as they were designed. Like 250 said it is a physically large machine. One issue is with the 440, I can spec. the machine with a 66" width. The best Bobcat can do is 68" . I know it is only a couple of inches we all know how important a couple inches can be. :cool2: Skag I am not sure what we will do but I imagine it will be a 440. CASE is going to give me 2.5K more than Bobcat on trade. The other issue is CASE will soon be releasing their pilot controls and so I may wait until those are released. The controls in the 440 are the best yet in a CASE machine, but I did like the comfort of the Bobcat Pilot controls they just were not as responsive as the CASE.

    I am losing some key help to the war in Irag (reserve activation). I have thought about trading both the 70 and the 95 on a 440 and some attachments until I can find help of the caliber that I currently have. So I may scale back to one skid steer and sell one dump truck unless I can find a couple of good operators that can drive. We'll see.

    I had run this engine in the prototype machines at the CASE skid steer plant in Wichita. They were impressive there. However they were not turned up as high as they are in the 440. I can't say enough about how powerful that engine is in the 440.
     
  10. Scag48

    Scag48 LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,067

    Hmm, pilots in a Case sound nice. Maybe next time around we'll look at a Case for comparison sake. Sounds like the competition is wising up to Cat's control system, which is great because this makes the competition create newer and better features. This business school stuff is rubbing off on me already. Speaking of college, are you almost done with school S250?
     

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