Bobcat s300 vs s330

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment & Pavement' started by YellowDogSVC, Dec 16, 2007.

  1. YellowDogSVC

    YellowDogSVC LawnSite Gold Member
    from TX
    Posts: 3,756

    Does anyone have any first hand experience operating an s300 and an s330? Does anyone know if the slightly more hp makes a difference? I am becoming frustrated with my s300's performance when running a brush mower. While it is productive, I think the motor has a hard time keeping up with the pump especially if I need to move the loader or travel uphill. It gets very frustrating as many of you know who run high flow hydraulics all day.

    Has anyone tried the T320?

    I wish Bobcat would stop playing with hp numbers. I have never gotten a straight answer on the fuel pump settings on, for example, an s250 vs. s300 which have different rated net hp.

    Any thoughts?
    How can CAT get sae rated 90 net hp out of the same motor they had a few years ago (201 cu in displacement) and Bobcat only get net sae 77.7 hp out of a 202 cu in displacement and only 85 hp out of a 230 cu in displacement as in the s330's new motor.
    Who can explain this?
     
  2. Scag48

    Scag48 LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,067

    As far as I know, the S330 is the same machine except it's beefed up a little more for a higher ROC capacity, obviously. Bobcat only posts 4 more HP difference between the S300 and S330.

    I seriously wonder where Bobcat is going to be in a few years, especially now under new ownership. I'm not saying that any manufacturer produces a perfect machine that is the end-all piece, but Bobcat is further from it than anyone else in the game right now I believe. Seems like every other MFG has their claim to fame, Deere is pushing power/lift capacity, Case is high capacity excavation, Cat builds a nicely equipped machine that caters to owner/operators and performance isn't paramount but is more than reasonable, New Holland is tough as nails and caters to crew oriented and fleet machines. What does Bobcat do extraordinarily well? I can't tell you anymore. There is nothing that Bobcat does these days that help them stand out from the crowd anymore. That's fine if you started with Bobcat and won't buy anything else, but the new guys shopping for their first machine are going to look at Bobcat and wonder what makes them so special? I've said it before, Bobcat is riding their reputation to the bitter end. I wish they would produce something in the 105HP range that will blow the doors of everything (again) and lead a powerhouse revolution.
     
  3. Gravel Rat

    Gravel Rat LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 9,544

    How many hours on the engine ?

    It maybe time to refresh the injection pump and injectors then tweak the fuel a little to squeeze some more power out of it.

    Does the engine pull right down when you put a load on it ?

    It sounds like the hydraulic pump can't handle the work load it isn't producing enough volume.

    If you talk to a hydraulic shop they can tell you how much horsepower is required to drive the pump to give the pressure and volume you are after.

    The hydraulic pump will stall the engine if it was too large for the engine or she would smoke black like a freight train.

    Another question when it the last time you changed the hydraulic oil and give it a good flush and replace it with some better grade oil.

    I aggree with Scag Bobcat isn't what they used to be. In the early years they were the best now they are not that good.
     
  4. Fieldman12

    Fieldman12 LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,504

    It is really sad to hear everyone complain about Bobcat. How could such a great company like them fall apart. I really hope Doosan helps them get back on top where they once was. I agree with Scagg48. All Bobcat is doing is riding there name to the ground.
     
  5. YellowDogSVC

    YellowDogSVC LawnSite Gold Member
    from TX
    Posts: 3,756


    This isn't an issue of my particular machine. It's fairly new and my 2nd K series. Both were dogs. My g series was fine for what it was but only produced 31gpm not the 37 the K series puts out. For the weight, at nearly 8500 lbs with bucket, it isn't as powerful as it should be in my mind. Every series the machines get heavier but the motor hasn't changed much. I still don't understand how a 202 cu in. motor produceds 81 hp or 77.7 net (which they lowered in my manual compared to my last k series) and a 230 cu in. motor only produces 4 more hp. Is this an EPA issue where they are trying to keep tier II or tier III emissions under a certain threshold?
     
  6. YellowDogSVC

    YellowDogSVC LawnSite Gold Member
    from TX
    Posts: 3,756

    Have you seen the prices? Just had to pick up a new grapple and it was 4k. That's about 1k more than I thought it should be. I buy a lot of Bobcat equipment and I just want some straight answers. I talked to a company rep recently but didn't get any information other than Bobcat was working on something. I'm frustrated. In my market I am competing with 200 hp grinders and crews of ******** with chainsaws and axes. I am trying to stay competitive as a one-man operation so I need productive machinery. Bobcat is very reliable and has the best service in this area and I like my machine however it just feels doggy and I know it is the power to weight and power to hydro pump ratio. I can feel it. It's hard to explain but those of you who live in a machine like I do know what I am talking about. You can feel the power or lack there of. You know what a machine should be able to do or at least what it could be capable of and just want that little edge. It would be interesting if there was a way to boost or hyperchip a motor. I don't want want to play with my injectors myself but that would be an option. Bobcat factory once told me the difference between s250 and s300 was the fuel delivery. They told me more fuel, more power. If CAT can squeeze 90 sae net hp out of the same size cu in motor as a large frame Bobcat, why can't Bobcat? That extra "umph" could help me keep my mower rpms up or give me that few extra hp to climb a hill and grind while the mower is going and the AC is on.
     
  7. bobcat_ron

    bobcat_ron LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 10,099

    Bobcat never had any good solid HP ratings on the high flow pumps, Cat and the rest of the crowd can at least give you a ball park figure, seems Bobcat's pumps just aren't as powerfull as they could be if they were a higher pressure like Cat's piston pumps.
     
  8. YellowDogSVC

    YellowDogSVC LawnSite Gold Member
    from TX
    Posts: 3,756

    I need a machine at 9200lbs or less to be keep under CDL. I don't want to haul with a gooseneck and my niche has me pulling with a flatbed and 16' 12k trailer. I can haul an industrial grapple and CAT HM312 mower on the flatbed and pull the S300k with bucket on the trailer. All this is under CDL and is a total weight around 24-25k lbs. I want the extra hp (and better sealed cab) in the same weight class.
    I probably would have bought an s330 if it didn't have the extra weight and goofy tires. The frame is identical to the s300-s250.
     
  9. bobcat_ron

    bobcat_ron LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 10,099

    Get the new Cat C series if you want new, they may not thave the HP, but the hydraulic power is greater with more torque than Bobcat, and the cabs are really impressive.
     
  10. YellowDogSVC

    YellowDogSVC LawnSite Gold Member
    from TX
    Posts: 3,756

    It's not the pumps. It's the motor keeping the pump going.
     

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