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Bobcat T190 vs Deer CT322

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment & Pavement' started by westernpa, Jan 16, 2006.

  1. westernpa

    westernpa LawnSite Member
    Posts: 12

    Hi fellas. I do mostly site prep cut and fill work for flat concrete projects so most work is done in dirt, clay and occasionally shale in my parts. After looking at breakout power and tip loads it seems that the T190 or the CTL322 fits the bill for the work that we do. The CAT is just out of the ballpark with cost at the moment. After reading lots of old posts from last year about some issues with the T190 (mostly lack of power and some undercarriage roller concerns) it seems these two issues have been adressed with 61hp motors and sealed rollers. I know quite a few Bobcat people but none with a CTL machine. We did a quick lot demo of both machines but with winter set in we can not get the machines to a job site to give them the once over.

    It looks like lots of experience on the boards here so I was hoping somebody could update their likes/dislikes of each machine if they have had any seat time on either one or both of these machines. Also things like serviceability are a bonus too. Looking forward to reading some reports!

    UNISCAPER LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,426

    You are doing mostly digging/grading. Of the two, go Bobcat. If you can get each dealr to do it, order a demo on the same job with both machines. The one that works best stays, and the looser goes back home where it came from. That in my opiunion is the absolute best way to compare what you need and what werks best.
  3. ksss

    ksss LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 7,129

    I have not run the Deere. I ran a bobcat T190 this fall. I had run an 03 in 03 and I thought maybe they had improved. There were some improvements but not many. I would strongly suggest getting the Bobcat pilot controls for demo over the AHC controls this is my opinion. The 190 continues to be underpowered and with the AHC was very stick heavy. This was to the point that running became a workout. I ran a bobcat T250 with pilots in AZ. much better machine. The only improvement I noticed on the new 190 verse the old was it didn't make as much hydrualic noise going over relief as the older model. I certainly wouldn't buy one without running it on one of your jobs first. If you can wait CASE will be releasing its smaller tracked machine in the 2nd quarter. It is based on the 440. The prototype was a great performer although it had noise issues it was the strongest machine in it class. It might be worth demoing if the time frame works for you.
  4. Tigerotor77W

    Tigerotor77W LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Germany
    Posts: 1,891

    I would suggest you run the Deere a bit, but talk to a few users of Deere's 200 Series II machines. I think you'll find that the Deere is much more powerful, but Uniscaper's comment about the Bobcat being a "better" digging machine is not unfound. Deere boom arms (and NH arms) are notorious for having several inches of sway after much use; therefore, the boom arms are more suited to lifting, say many contractors. However -- it is very important to note that Deere will likely a) refute this statement and b) offer that Bobcat's arms are prone to cracking. This is why I suggest you talk to some 200 Series II users, whose machines are already very similar to the current 300-series in design. If those machines have much boom sway after significant use, the 300 series will likely have it as well (not guaranteed, but likely).

    There are several more tips I would like to address here, but I'm on a tight schulede as I'm back at school. Digdeep would be more than a great source of information as well.
  5. westernpa

    westernpa LawnSite Member
    Posts: 12

    We hope to have a demo with each machine in the next few weeks. Unfortunately we can not wait for the Case to come out. As far as arm sway or cracking goes our radial arm 863 does have some arm sway but no cracking. One operator did manage to crack one of our buckets up though and he was hard on the machine all the way around ( and no longer with us). Now I was told of some concerns with JD machines and excessive wear on hinge pins and trouble changing them out. Any truth to that or is that just brand bashing? BTW I was not told this by the Bobcat rep.
  6. Tigerotor77W

    Tigerotor77W LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Germany
    Posts: 1,891

    I can't comment on the excessive wear on hinge pins as I don't know the answer. Some of the users here do have JD skids or CTLs and love them, but their hours won't be high enough yet to give you a definitive answer.

    Personally... I think the Deere machine may be better for your needs, though I remain partial to Bobcat (and Cat) for other size machines (S250, for instance).
  7. Canon Landscaping

    Canon Landscaping LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 259

    I have demoed both machines and ran them for about 10 hours the Deere is hands down the better machine. The Deere will keep pushing dirt until it has rolled over the bucket and into the operators compartment the bobcat runs out of power before this happens.
  8. Tigerotor77W

    Tigerotor77W LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Germany
    Posts: 1,891

    *sigh* When will Bobcat learn...

    Canon, did you try stalling the engine on a Deere or a Bobcat? What control system did the Bobcat have? Was the T190 a K-series machine?
  9. all ferris

    all ferris LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,307

    Just wait till you have to start fixing things on the deere! I work part time for a logger who uses a 270 to move logs and it's a piece of crap. It has all sorts of engine power but has terrible hydraulics. This machine has a new motor at 2200hrs, had numerous hyd. leaks, been re-pinned because of boom sway, park break doesn't work, and even now the hydraulics won't work till the machine has run for about 5 minutes. This machine will not pick up something up that is too heavy because it doesn't have enough hydraulic power. Maybe it's just this one machine???
  10. Tigerotor77W

    Tigerotor77W LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Germany
    Posts: 1,891

    It sounds like just the one machine. Deere, like NH (in the first run of Lx865 and 885s, before they lowered the boom breakout force), usually overpowers their machines to the point where they can lift their tipping load (on forks!) with no problem. This may be a little unsafe, but given their stability, it's unusual that you're having this sort of difficulty.

    Service may be another story; I don't know.

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