I just want to thank everyone on lawnsite for their help and opinions for the last couple of years It looks as though I am going out of business! There are several factors contributing to this. 1. The rates here are too low as for what people will pay. Average rates here $25 per hour. $15 minimum. for 30 minute lawn. 2. There are only a few premium residential properties and with 8 LCO's and 3 landscapers fighting for them it is tough to retain them as for the ever popular price wars. 3. The number of commercial properties here is only around 30 and most are small. 4. Costs too high, insurance alone is running $3400 per year. 5. Collection problems on the few commercial properties I do have. 6. I can't seem to compete on the commercial properties as large companies are low balling them to get them and they still make money. Example. I budded one property as follows 29000 sq. ft. lawn area 5100 linear feet trimming weekly, fertilizer x 4 per year, total weed control on 12000 sq ft of beds and rock areas, all pruning and trimming on 180 shrubs and trees. As well as having another company spray all lawn areas 3 times a year for broadleaf. All lawn must be bagged, This includes picking up trash and debris as well as blowing off all parking areas and walkways weekly year round, Irrigation system maintenance and the first 5 damaged heads replaced as part of the contract. This also is for leaf removal and there is nothing that is grounds related that is not included. This is an apartment complex. My bid $725 per month on 12 months The guys that got it bidded the same thing at $525 per month on 12 months. That is just one example. Can't compete so I have to find another way to attempt to make a living. Plain and simple!!! I may still be around on Lawnsite but probably not much longer a LCO Farewell to all and Best of Luck !