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Cat skid steers

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment & Pavement' started by Fieldman12, Feb 14, 2008.

  1. Fieldman12

    Fieldman12 LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,504

    Just got back from the Farm Machinery Show and tractor pulls. Looked at all different brands of equipment such as Case, Deere, Cat, Gehl and so on. Got some pics but nothing new to brag about. Deere did not have the new skid steers with E/H controls there and the Case with a new cab. Did talk to a Cat salesman a good bit. He said that Cat is seriously considering not making a small frame C series skid steer or MTL now because the bottom has pretty much fallen out of the small skid steer lines in sales. He said they are more focused on the large frame machines. He also said that Cat plans to keep the ASV undercarriage even though Terex bought out ASV. He also informed me that Cat has reworked the ASV undercarriages on the Cat's and said that most of the undercarriage has been changed to Cat's design. He was pointing out allot of things that was Cat's design on the undercarriage. They also had a Cat skid steer there with a Loegering VTS track system on it. He told me that the Cat/ASV undercarriage is more for a landscaper environment where as the Loegering was pretty much for all conditions. Anyway nothing we have not talked about on here before. He did mention that backhoe sales where declining as we all knew but he said it was a slow gradual decline unlike the fast decline in the small framed skid steers. By the way I set in the Cat C series cab again and in my opinion it needs to be a little wider. You kinda have to fall into the seat to get in it.
  2. bobcat_ron

    bobcat_ron LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 10,101

    What did he mean by "backhoe" sales declining, excavators or real backhoes?
  3. Scag48

    Scag48 LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,067

    I wouldn't doubt it if backhoe sales are declining. A decent backhoe, regardless of brand, is $110K now. At this point, the die hard backhoe guys are retiring and my generation was trained on excavators. With a 120-150 sized machine, a one man operation can do a lot of work around here. Add a large skid steer/MTL and you replace a backhoe for about half the cost, plus it's more versatile in the way of adding attachments. You might not have as large of a loader bucket as a backhoe, but skids and MTL's sure as hell are faster than backhoes and they will go more places.
  4. BIGBEN2004

    BIGBEN2004 LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 823

    That would be the worst mistake Cat could make. The market is pushing toward more compact work now with less demand on the market for large housing communities and more toward the additions and house demolition and build a new huge house in it place. When those jobs are done you are very limited on how big a machine can be. If they were to not continue the small machine line then Cat's reputation for only building large machinery would be all to true. They need to focus on the smaller machines equally as much as the larger machines to stay competitive in this market.

    OOH, and on a side note Backhoes are becoming like Dinosaurs in my opinion way too over priced also. Also my Takeuchi dealer told me to look out for a new series of CTL from them with Vertical Lift. Also Takeuchi is working on a mini excavator that not only has a blade but a small loader bucket for carrying stone for septics or what ever you need to carry stuff for, so keep an eye out for some new machines that will really push the Back hoes out the door.
  5. Scag48

    Scag48 LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 6,067

    You guys do realize that Cat could drop the entire compact equipment line and still kick everyone's butt, right? The whole introduction of the compact line in 1999 was to get smaller contractors into Cat in hopes of one day luring them into larger equipment. It's not like Cat really needs to sell these smaller machines to keep the steam going for them, it's more of a marketing tool to get the smaller guys into Cat. Worked for us, we started with Cat and will more than likely finish with Cat. My dad will probably hang it up in 10 years or less, he's 55 now and if he buys another machine it'll probably be a Cat.

    Long time buyers of Cat equipment before 1999 relied on other brands for their compact equipment needs. The compact line catered to them as well, I'm sure when the skids and min ex's were released they dropped their Bobcat's and went running to the A series skid steers simply for ease of fleet management. But Cat doesn't need to push the compact to ultra-stellar levels to stay in the black.
  6. iron peddler

    iron peddler LawnSite Member
    from midwest
    Posts: 184

    ben if you saw industry numbers you would know that the 1600 lb roc is way down from 1997 to current....that class is almost a special market in itself. the manufacturers that do sell them are selling them as loss leaders like walmart sells many things....compact equipment sales will stay strong due to the cost, but that size class is struggling.....

    i would not count on Cat not doing c series with small frames, just maybe not as many models as before....maybe 2 models not 4 or 5
  7. BIGBEN2004

    BIGBEN2004 LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 823

    Then that will just help Case, New Holland, Takeuchi and so on then if Cat is losing sales and limits the size machines available. Looks like if I need a small Multi Terrain Loader like the Cat 247 then it will be Posi Track all the way.
  8. iron peddler

    iron peddler LawnSite Member
    from midwest
    Posts: 184

    market share percentages are the same for the most part of regardless of size class.....the 247 is above that size class so it will likely continue...bobcat might have 80% of the 1100 roc market, that may only be 80-120 machines nationwide....that is why cat does not spend millions to engineer and develop a machine in that class...there are alot of variables to consider...it is not just a matter of shrinking components into a smaller frame like some companies do.
  9. bobcatexc

    bobcatexc LawnSite Senior Member
    from IL
    Posts: 272


    Blah, Blah, Blah CAT, CAT, CAT, I wish you'd get off your little soap box and CAT Image kick. I can't wait until you get out and work for some real dirt company's and discover there's other brands that do just the same. Don't get me wrong I like Cat equipment for certain things, but I like other brands also, but I don't preach and harp on them. I agree that skids/MTLS won't make or break Cat, but I highly doubt they quit making them
  10. ma5tr

    ma5tr LawnSite Member
    from toronto
    Posts: 103

    you are right that there are other companies that have equipment that have machines that will do the same as CAT or better, however CAT has equipment from excavators, scrapers, dozers, arcticulating trucks, backhoes, pavers, rollers etc.. that all do the job they were built forvery well....what other company makes such a diverse fleet of equipment that all do what they were made to do well? secondly CAT service is unparralled. CAT makes it easy for companies to use all CAT equipment. Less people to contact when theres a problem in the fleet, user friendly when switching from amchine to machine etc.... Also I 100% agree with scags statement with regards to CAT using its smaller equipment.

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