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Certainty

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by GALAWN, Apr 21, 2014.

  1. georgialawn88

    georgialawn88 LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,075

    don't mean to high jack your thread jason but greendoc. you just mentioned tribute total I just got some how well does this stuff work? its labeled for everything and i hear its dummy proof safe
     
  2. greendoctor

    greendoctor LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 8,802

    It is the simplest way to deal with a bermuda or zoysia lawn that has everything but the kitchen sink growing out of it. Use this with 1/2% MSO rather than the cute "spreader stickers" Makes a difference in how well it works on crabgrass and goosegrass. Want it hotter? Add 4 oz per acre Dismiss. I save this for lawns where the weed spectrum includes goosegrass and purple nutsedge. Unfortunately, this describes most incorrectly maintained turf areas in Hawaii.
     
  3. BikePilot

    BikePilot LawnSite Member
    Posts: 240

    Greendoc, one of the ingredients in Tribute Total is sedgehammer, HaloSulfuron-methyl. Do you know what other herbicides the other 2 ingredients come from?
     
  4. greendoctor

    greendoctor LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 8,802

    Foramsulfuron(Revolver). Thiencarbazone methyl(Celsius). Don't know how true this is, but my Agrium rep told me my mix to deal with a lawn that has all manner of weeds growing out of it inspired this product. I used Certainty in that mix, but Bayer would then need to enter into an agreement with Monsanto to make that happen. Believe it or not, the people at Bayer, BASF, FMC, and Syngenta know me. No, they are not wagging their fingers or shaking their heads at what I am doing with their products either. Halosulfuron methyl is a post patent herbicide. Even as a post patent, it is still crazy expensive. BTW, Agency price on the mid rate of Tribute Total runs about $100. I consider that a deal because Celsius+Revolver is around $125 per acre not including the Sedgehammer to address purple nutsedge.
     
  5. Skipster

    Skipster LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,074

    What’s the point of using a gram scale if you’re just going to use it on your tailgate? The products you’re measuring with it are vulnerable to wind movement and the scale will read differently as air currents change. You’re trying to make a precise measurement using imprecise conditions.

    Why not just use the scale (or volumetric measurement tool provided by the manufacturer) back inside your shop (with the doors closed and fans off) so you can actually use the precise tool you bought?
     
  6. Georgia Lawn

    Georgia Lawn LawnSite Member
    from Ga
    Posts: 97

    "Why not just use the scale (or volumetric measurement tool provided by the manufacturer) back inside your shop"

    He might be making his mix specific to that yard. I do this sometimes and I also have to use a scale on my tailgate. If one customer is ate up with sedge or mixture of hard to control weeds, a whole tank of that mixed up at the shop can get really expensive really fast.especially if you have other yards to treat that do not need those chemicals. I'd much rather be a 1/4 of a gram off on a lawn from wind disturbance than put tons of uneeded chemicals down.

    Mixing at the shop is way easier though that is for sure.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  7. Skipster

    Skipster LawnSite Bronze Member
    Posts: 1,074

    For what products and what weeds do you find it necessary to change the product rate? If a particular rate works well on a single sedge plant in a lawn with no other weeds in it, that same rate will work just as well on a bunch of single sedge plants growing among other sedge plants. Adding more product doesn't kill it any faster or kill it any deader -- it just costs more money to deliver the same result.

    Weed Science 101: the number of weeds doesn't affect the product rate. Which product label have you seen that gives you different rates based on how much of the area is covered with weeds (or 'ate up,' if you prefer)?

    But, if the rate were so important to you, being 1/4 gram off (though it's more likely that your scale will read several grams off and you will lose some product due to wind) can make a big difference, especially if you don't want to put more chemicals down unnecessarily. I also wouldn't want to have any part in the Dept of Ag fine that would come with that.

    It looks like some people think that they're being more precise just because they use a gram scale, but if you use it outdoors, you've lost all that precision and now you're just guessing, trying to get close. Do you calibrate your gram scale before each use? Do you keep it showroom, out-of-the-box clean? Do you keep it indoors and prevent it from jostling around in a truck on your route? If not, you're just guessing at your rate.

    I think that's an expensive mistake.
     
  8. Georgia Lawn

    Georgia Lawn LawnSite Member
    from Ga
    Posts: 97

    I was talking about mixing up for example a 300 gallon tank to treat 20 yards and you have 1 yard that is "ate up" with sedge. You would not want to mix the whole tank for that 1 yard. You would A waste product on turf that didn't need chem and B waste money spraying all 20 yards with a product that controls sedge for that one yard.

    If all 20 yards have sedge then yes mix at shop for the whole tank.

    But if I have 20k sq ft yard full of sedge what am I supposed to do? Mix up 5 backpacks at the shop for that one yard? Or mix my drop tank for that one yard and be done with it. Go on to next problem in next yard and mix up other chem for other yard.

    I'm all about mixing precise and calibrating my equipment of course my scales are calibrated they'd be useless if not. FWIW I've used the measuring cups that come with the products and measured on my scale and the difference is minuscule if any.

    I have been stopped by the dept of ag before and they were thrilled to see I was even using a scale, let alone googles, gloves and disposable respirator. I don't know how it is up there but most guys down here just give it a" Good Pour and that's about right" mentality. It's a shame that's how this industry is but as for right now a scale in the field is the best way I know how to treat specific problems in specific lawns without treating a whole route.

    If you have a recommendation for a better solution I am all ears.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  9. Georgia Lawn

    Georgia Lawn LawnSite Member
    from Ga
    Posts: 97

    Green Doctor you mentioned 1/2% MSO and not sticker. Do you think something like LI700 from Loveland would do any good or only use MSO?
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  10. greendoctor

    greendoctor LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 8,802

    LI 700 acidifies the solution and degrades the AI. I save LI 700 for RoundUp and Three Way amine which are helped by making the solution acid.
     

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