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Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by GALAWN, Apr 21, 2014.

  1. fl-landscapes

    fl-landscapes LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,542

    Ted your telling me you didn't have the time to

    "Did you conduct controlled replicated experiments over several years and several different management schemes and weather patterns to determine if you actually were getting better control with MSO and that what you saw wasn't due to some other factor?"

    I mean who doesn't have several years to figure out which adjuvant works best. Good grief
  2. ted putnam

    ted putnam LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,539

    No. My trials usually last a period of a few weeks. The list of criteria includes but is not necessarily in this order:

    #1-It didn't turn to play-do in a jar

    #2-It didn't kill any trees

    #3-It didn't kill any pets

    #4- It DID kill the weed with minimal damage to the turf

    #5- It worked as good or better than what I've used previously

    #6- By using it in the manner I am using it, I am staying within the parameters laid out in the label.

    **If all these thing check out, I feel pretty confident I'll be OK to use it.
  3. fl-landscapes

    fl-landscapes LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,542

    Phew, thanks. I was about to start a multi year study. Now I can just sit back and eat some icecream. Yummy

  4. wildstarblazer

    wildstarblazer LawnSite Senior Member
    Posts: 984

    Im a rookie ( at weed application anyway) and I won't use mso again. I Noticed damage on the lawns I used it on.
  5. fl-landscapes

    fl-landscapes LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,542

    Use what you think works best. But I'm wondering what percent Mso you used, what was the air temp, what was the herbicide you mixed it with and what rate was the herbicide mixed, what was the desirable turf, what equipment was it applied with and how much carrier per M, was the turf stressed by any other factors at time of application? Lots of things can cause turf damage from an application. Mso can make a mix hotter no one is denying that but used correctly it can enhance efficacy of herbicides. Trial and error takes a while to figure out what where and when you use any mix. Big thing was it a couple glugs of Mso or a .5%
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
  6. ted putnam

    ted putnam LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,539

    Try some Peach
  7. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 12,211

    In last year's test, I found no injury with Bonide non-ionic surfactant--even when the rate was high. I used Speedzone and the high temps were between 80 and 88.

    However, I found no visible difference due to the increased rate of surfactant.

    Hopefully, I will have a chance to try it again in 2014. We already have a few violets blooming. Perhaps I can find out which month of the year results in the best control of violets.

    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
  8. fl-landscapes

    fl-landscapes LawnSite Silver Member
    Posts: 2,542


  9. ted putnam

    ted putnam LawnSite Platinum Member
    Posts: 4,539

    Yep. Just like me right now. I have been using 1oz/1000 3-way but Monday we will begin mixing it at .8 oz/1000. With the turf having fresh new growth and temps rising, tip burn is a real possibility. You learn things like that through past experience not a label. Yes, the label is the law but on the flip side, it is merely a guideline.

    Telling yourself you'll never use a product again because you sprayed a few lawns one day and saw more damage than you or the customer felt was acceptable when others are having success using the product is the wrong approach to take.

    When something like that happens to me, I'm thinking that I must have done something wrong and I begin trying to modify my way of applying it. Either mixing, equipment or technique or any combination are changed and I do some more experimenting.
  10. greendoctor

    greendoctor LawnSite Fanatic
    Posts: 9,064

    A long time ago, I learned to tread cautiously if it had been raining for a long time and then it turns hot. In my area, that is like coming out of dormancy. Tone down all of the treatments and yes, I will even use a water based surfactant because I do not need the solvent and penetrating properties of MSO. Lately, I have had to increase the concentration of MSO because everything is almost dormant. No sun, raining, cold, and windy. Lawns with unknown nutritional status or soil pH are also not sprayed. There are times when this ties into my position on instant gratification and making people temporarily happy.

    Don't know about anyone else, but as long as the weeds go and the grass recovers, my customers do not get particularly excited. They do get excited if it has been a week or more and nothing is happening. This is all about education and not being the customer's indentured servant. A big dose of reality is administered when dealing with a lawn that is 75% the intended species and 25% everything else. I also have some weeds peculiar to Hawaii that cannot be controlled without a little damage. By a little damage, I mean something the grass grows out of in 2 or 3 weeks. Sure people may not be happy. But, you know what. I am not here to make people happy. That does not work. People turn on you when you run out of ways to satisfy their need for instant gratification. I am here to do what I think is right for their lawn. There is a little common sense involved in that a lawn is sprayed with nothing more than fertilizer if there is going to be an event on the lawn within 30 days. No need to discolor grass or cause weeds to look torched before someone's birthday or baby shower. Even if there is no damage to the grass, it still looks strange when weeds are not a normal shade of green and are turning yellow, purple, or brown.

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